Roland / Edirol SD-## backward compatible to SC-55,80 ?

[Carl]

I was wondering if the new line of  Roland / Edirol Products like
SD-20, SD-80, SD-90   are backward compatible to
Sound Canvas SC-55 SC-80, etc   Modules?

I read that the SD-20 has both a USB / Serial Interface.

Will you still be able to play DOS / Windows 3.1 Classic Games
 (that have MIDI music) ?

Can anybody tell me if it has better sound sets than the
SD 8850  as far as trying to sound more like the MT 32?
(I read that it has  General Midi 2 (GM2), GS, and XG Lite
  capability).

 

[George Montemayor]

Edirol told me a long time ago that the StudioCanvas's are not completely GS compatible.  I don't have one to share any experiences with it though.

This simple review of the SD-80 says:

Even though Edirol claimed it as a GS compatible unit, it only has limited compatibility with previous Roland module. MIDI files that has been arranged for SC-88,SC-88 Pro,SC-8820 & SC-8850 will not playback properly on this unit (will result in missing instruments and effects). If you are looking to use this unit to playback your old GS MIDI files, better find SC-8820 / SC-8850 on ebay!

[HondaSiR]

So the Edirol SD-20 and SD-90 are not really backwards compatible with the SC-55? Shucks, I planned on buying one of those modules some day but now, I changed my mind. I'll probably wait for the old ones like the SC-8820 to pop up cheap in ebay. It may be a long wait though, but I don't mind. At around US$290.00 or so a piece, I'd probably put the money to better use elsewhere.

[Carl]

Thanks for the Info.

Regarding the SC-8820 and SC-8850:

Will either of these modules be able to play DOS and Win 3.1 Games
like Sierra's Adventure Games .

Is it just a matter of connecting your Sound Card's MPU 401
interface  (like the Game/Midi port of a Sound Blaster card)
into the Roland Sound Canvas Module itself.   :?

Sorry, but I have never seen a External Sound Canvas module
and was deciding whether to buy the SC-55, SC-88, or SC88xx.
 :oops:

[moturimi1]

Thanks for the Info.

Regarding the SC-8820 and SC-8850:

Will either of these modules be able to play DOS and Win 3.1 Games
like Sierra's Adventure Games .

Of cource you're able to play the MIDI music of games through an external device.
You just have to connect the game/midi port of your Soundblaster card to the MIDI IN of the external sound module. Then connect the sound modules output to the Soundblasters LINE IN.
For Windows (WinXP, Win2000, Win98) you need to change the MIDI device. Select something like MPU401 or MIDI E/A. Now all MIDI messages are sent to the external module through the gameport.
You don't have to configure anything more.
Just use VDMS or DOSBOX for the games under WinXP and it'll be fine.

The SC8820 and SC8850 also has a USB interface. You can also connect it with USB instead of MIDI. This way it also works in WinXP, ect.
You just have to install the USB driver of the module and select the Midi device in the sound device manager once more.

So the Edirol SD-20 and SD-90 are not really backwards compatible with the SC-55? Shucks, I planned on buying one of those modules some day but now, I changed my mind. I'll probably wait for the old ones like the SC-8820 to pop up cheap in ebay. It may be a long wait though, but I don't mind. At around US$290.00 or so a piece, I'd probably put the money to better use elsewhere.

I have the manual of the SD-90 although I don't own it. I also wanted to buy one of the new modules.
The GS compatibility of all SD modules is just the SC-55 MKII sound map (without MT-32 variation, I think). There are no sounds of the SC-88 and higher. Each sound uses the same amount of voices as the SC-55. But I think they sound totally different.

[Alistair]

Well, the units are GM compliant, so obviously for any games that are GM compliant the module will sound good.

Can anybody tell me if it has better sound sets than the
SD 8850 as far as trying to sound more like the MT 32?
(I read that it has General Midi 2 (GM2), GS, and XG Lite
capability).

The SC-8850 has all of those capabilities as well.
The SD series does not get as close as the 8850/ED lines in terms of MT-32 sounds.

I suppose the main problem with the SD lines are the lack of sounds! From memory, the SD-90 (top SD model) has only 1060 sounds.. about 600 less than my 8850. So you can imagine the problems playing back ED MIDI's from this site, for example. Also, the less sounds, the less likely it will be to have sounds that are good conversions of the MT-32's, or at least passable ones.
And did you say there's none of the GS MT-32 set? Yikes!!!

I only recommend ED modules to anyone who plays with music actively.. I use it for composing and Sierra soundtracks purely, obviously Tom has other uses for his 8820 as well. But for simply playing old games, it'd be a waste of money. I'd recommend a SCC-1, at the other extreme of the scale.

Carl: Yep, like the MT-32 or any device you use MIDI and digital outputs. You use the MPU-401/joystick port of your MIDI sound card.

- Alistair

[Carl]

Thanks for the info!  

Moturimi:  I have not forgotten the  Dream, Yamaha, and Wave Blaster
sound samples you sent me.  I have some time this weekend
to try it out.

I also got my hands on a DB50XG daughterboard because I was
curious to see what the XG  Sound Set  is all about.

It doesn't stop there, eventually I will try to get a Sound Canvas
SCD-15  (just have to wait until one shows up on Ebay)

and then eventually when I learn more about this stuff, I will
get a External module Sound Canvas to start doing some
Midi compositions myself.

I'll keep you posted.  Have a Great Weekend guys!

[moturimi1]

Why don't you get an external module instead of a wavetable board?
The external module doesn't cost must more, but you have many advantages. You can use it with every computer that has a sound card. You don't need a card with a wavetable header. You have a display and you can tune the sounds parameter without sending sysex messages.

I also started getting a SCD-15 in 1994. I had it till last year. I bought several sound modules to see how they sound. e.g. I once had a SCD-10, SCD-15, SC-7, SC-55, SC-155, SC-8850, SC-D70, MT-32, Yamaha DB50XG, Yamaha MU10, Yamaha MU50, Korg NS5R.
Now I "only" own 5 sound modules. The SCD-70, SC-8850, SC-55, SC-155, MT-32. I think I'll sell 2 more modules; the SC-55 and the SC-D70.

Thanks for the info!  

Moturimi:  I have not forgotten the  Dream, Yamaha, and Wave Blaster
sound samples you sent me.  I have some time this weekend
to try it out.

- I can also send you the SC-8850.mp3 soundfile, where you can see how this module acts. It's from the same .mid file I sent you 2 weeks ago.

- Maybe you want to know how a special mid file sound. Then tell me a file and I record it for you.

[Tom]

Regarding the SC-8820 and SC-8850:

Will either of these modules be able to play DOS and Win 3.1 Games
like Sierra's Adventure Games .

Is it just a matter of connecting your Sound Card's MPU 401
interface  (like the Game/Midi port of a Sound Blaster card)
into the Roland Sound Canvas Module itself.   :?

Neither the SC-8820 or SC-8850 ...or any other SC device... are well suited for playing older, DOS-based Sierra Adventure Games.  If the game supports General MIDI, then you're okay.  But many older DOS-based games didn't.  Sierra's first few batches of MIDI supported games didn't support GM, but did support the MT-32.  The Sound Canvas (any model) doesn't emulate the MT-32 except for the MT-32's default patch mapping -- which wasn't used in games. The only way to hear good music with many of the early adventure games is with a real MT-32, or one of the other L/A synth modules that a 100% MT-32 compatible.  What was it?  1992 when GM support began to show up?

[Carl]

I also started getting a SCD-15 in 1994. I had it till last year. I bought several sound modules to see how they sound. e.g. I once had a SCD-10, SCD-15, SC-7, SC-55, SC-155, SC-8850, SC-D70, MT-32, Yamaha DB50XG, Yamaha MU10, Yamaha MU50, Korg NS5R.
Now I "only" own 5 sound modules. The SCD-70, SC-8850, SC-55, SC-155, MT-32. I think I'll sell 2 more modules; the SC-55 and the SC-D70.


Wow, you really know your stuff!      I am curious as to why
you would have the SCD-70 when you already have the best
Sound Canvas available (SC-8850) ?  And what makes the
SC-155 different from the other SC ?

The reason i have the Midi daughterboards is because I do not
have enough space yet in my home office to put all the external
Midi equipment so a  Card is the best solution for me right now.
I will definitely get a Sound Canvas External Module later on.
By the way, How much are you selling your SC-55 module?


Tom:   I am a fan of the Sierra adventure games,  I seem to recall the
first Sierra game that had MT 32 capability was King's Quest 4, and
Space Quest 3.  I was over at a friend's place when they bought the MT32 when it first came out.  When they played the Intro sequence for KQ4 and SQ3,  it totally blew me away!

I think after these games (after 1988), Sierra started making games
with General Midi compatability.   I have played the Quest for Glory
games so many times with my Wave Blaster II daughtercard.

I wonder if I can get the Midi files for the Quest for Glory 5 game.
I love the music in that game.

[moturimi1]

I bought the SC-155 some time before the Sc-55. The Sc-55 is better to use, because the SC-155 is a table top module.
In the last 2 months there were so many SC-55 on ebay Germany. You can get a module here in Germany for about 80 Euros.
I think you live in the states so take a look on ebay.com It shouldn't be much more there.


Nearly all games after 1992 had GM support, untill in the mid. of 1995 most games started to use digital music.
That's why I think QFG 5 doesn't have Midi music. It's digital.

[Tom]

first Sierra game that had MT 32 capability was King's Quest 4, and
Space Quest 3. I was over at a friend's place when they bought the MT32 when it first came out. When they played the Intro sequence for KQ4 and SQ3, it totally blew me away!

I think after these games (after 1988), Sierra started making games
with General Midi compatability. I have played the Quest for Glory
games so man1y times with my Wave Blaster II daughtercard.

Indeed, KQ4 WAS the first MIDI supported Sierra game, and it used the default MT-32 sound mapping.  But, no, Sierra didn't start General MIDI support for many years later...basically, because there was no such thing until late 1990, and Sierra didn't use GM until around 1992.  Games like Colonel's Bequest, King's Quest 5, Space Quest 3 (SQ4 later gained GM support), Code Name Iceman, Leisure Suit Larry 2, 3, and 5, Camelot, and others had no GM support.

[HondaSiR]

Carl: What specific Sierra games do you plan on playing? You will definitely need an MT-32 (or a true compatible) in order to get the most out of the "older" ones.

Regarding GM compliance, you won't need an external module like an SC-55 if you plan on purchasing an SCB-55 or SCC-1 first. Besides being more expensive, the external modules only offer the LCD front panel display, which to game players mean nothing. The LCD display of the MT-32 offers much more value because games companies at the time took advantage of it, often giving out funny quotes. But this is only on the MT-32. Game companies never took advantage of the SC-55's LCD screen. Only composers will benefit from it IMO.

[Carl]

Yes Honda sir,  in all likelihood,  I think I might
buy an  MT 32 after all

I can connect the MT 32 Card to my Sound Blaster Awe32 card's
MIDI/Game port,  there is a patch (I just found on this site) I can
get that allows the MT32 to play through my Sound Blaster Card
(MT32SB.ZIP)  so I will not require an MPU 401  ISA card.

Does anybody know if this driver only works for the
Sierra Games?  How about other games like Wing Commander II?
 :?

The reason I am also thinking of getting a Roland Sound Canvas
SC-##   is because I do want to learn how to compose MIDI songs.
Also, as everybody knows,  the Sound Blaster Cards SNr (Signal
to Noise Ratio)  when playing Music is just awful. So if you are
trying to record music, forget it.  

[Tom]

. The LCD display of the MT-32 offers much more value because games companies at the time took advantage of it, often giving out funny quotes. But this is only on the MT-32.

Not to mention the "Quest Studios" MT-32 display plug used in the game patch  banks on this site.    That's a don't miss.

That damn SQ3 "Insert Buckazoid" display had me going for the longest time!

[moturimi1]

Yes Honda sir,  in all likelihood,  I think I might
buy an  MT 32 after all

I can connect the MT 32 Card to my Sound Blaster Awe32 card's
MIDI/Game port,  there is a patch (I just found on this site) I can
get that allows the MT32 to play through my Sound Blaster Card
(MT32SB.ZIP)  so I will not require an MPU 401  ISA card.

Does anybody know if this driver only works for the
Sierra Games?  How about other games like Wing Commander II?
 :?
 

You only need this driver if you have a Soundblaster (pro). These soundcards didn't have a MPU401 UART compatible port.
But other Soundblaster (16,AWE32,AWE64) are MPU401 UART compatible.
So I think you don't need that driver. Am I right???

You only need a MPU401 card if you want to use the intelligent mode. Most games don't use it.

[Alistair]

Not to mention the "Quest Studios" MT-32 display plug used in the game patch banks on this site.  That's a don't miss.

How many times have I seen it.

That damn SQ3 "Insert Buckazoid" display had me going for the longest time!
 

Hmm? I don't quite get it.

Indeed, KQ4 WAS the first MIDI supported Sierra game, and it used the default MT-32 sound mapping. But, no, Sierra didn't start General MIDI support for many years later...basically, because there was no such thing until late 1990, and Sierra didn't use GM until around 1992. Games like Colonel's Bequest, King's Quest 5, Space Quest 3 (SQ4 later gained GM support), Code Name Iceman, Leisure Suit Larry 2, 3, and 5, Camelot, and others had no GM support.
 

Of course, you can play any game that uses the default map with your SC-##.

But these days, there are GM drivers for LSL1, 5, KQ5, Longbow, QFG2, and certain others..

Still, games like SQ3 simply cannot be played with any driver pretending to have 'GM' compatibility. It just won't convert!

- Alistair

[Carl]

I am probably going off topic here.

But does the Sound Blaster 16/AWE32 card
have the smart/intelligent UART so that you
can connect the MT32 without a driver to
play games like KQ4, SQ3 and Wing Commander 2 (Origin),
and other MT32 compatible Games?
 :?

Or do you still need to get the Roland MPU 401/AT
ISA card to play these games?

[Zemus]

But does the Sound Blaster 16/AWE32 card
have the smart/intelligent UART so that you
can connect the MT32 without a driver to
play games like KQ4, SQ3 and Wing Commander 2 (Origin),
and other MT32 compatible Games?

No, but you can get a patch for the Sierra games that require a SMART-capable MPU-401 on this site. For the other games, your best bet is to get a SMART-capable card or run the game in Windwos with DOSbox or VDMsound.[/quote]

[moturimi1]

You can play Sierra games without having a smart MPU401 interface. You also don't need any driver.
There are only a few games that need a smart MPU401 port.
The SB AWE32 doesn't have a smart MPU401 port, but it has a MPU401 UART port. It should work for most games.