SC-55 vs ED 55 tones conclusion

[Alistair]

Tom Lewandowski was right. Simple as that!

I dug out my SC-55 which I bought over a year ago on Ebay, and hardly used, owing to the fact that it had been dropped (and damaged internally)on the way to it coming itno my possession. That was just all great.

Using an 8850 a bit later, I decided that I need not bother about the SC-55 because I 'had one' in my Roland ED module. Boy, was this a mistake!

Now that Uni's over, I decided to get my module repaired. Tom's words on the matter, which were along the lines of 'They don't sound the same. Simple as that.' echoed throguh my head whenever I thought of it. I had to see!
I needed to anyway (worst case scenario, I sell it on Ebay)..

It was relatively cheap to repair, and got it back yesterday.

I listened to some tracks. Oh boy! Maybe one or two instruments were similar sounding, but the sound quality of my SC-55 *far* exceeds that of my SC-8850. And the instruments are nothing alike!
The reverb sounds nicer, I think.
Some instruments like 'Saw Wave' sound like a whole new instrument! (And waaaaaay better.)

Well, looks like there's another good reason to work a bit harder. 3 modules now.. I shall be recording GK1 over again.

Thanks for the good advice, Tom.. it's going to pay off, big-time.

Regards,
- Alistair

[HondaSiR]

I've always known that the SC-55 MK2 or the SCB-55 daughterboard had something not even the "upper" class ED modules had. For one thing, I've read somewhere in the internet that the SC-55 had the best sounding accoustic piano in all of the synthesizers out there, even from Korg, Yamaha and etc. I don't have the necessary equipment to verify this, but I believe that the guy who wrote it had an authority in synthesizers (he owned or had access to virtually all of them as a musician).

[Alistair]

ED is upper class. As Tom said this week, you think you have a great sounding module with a SC-55. Then when you get an ED module.. you think again.

The reverb is more moderate.. the instruments many more times realistic.

Though I do like the 'bright' reverb of the 55..

But yes. The SC-55 has acoustic characteristics which are quite useful and audibly appealing.

- Alistair

[Ari]

How does the Grand Piano compare between the 2 modules? I've got a few "Piano only" midis I'd like to hear on the ED, if you've got the patience to record...

[Tom]

I think the upright piano's of the 8820 and 55 are pretty well matched.  The 8850 is supposed to have the most realistic of all SC pianos, some using 4-element sounds compared to the 55 and 8820's 1 and 2-element sounds.  The Yamaha SW60XG also has a very good acoustic piano.  It's funny, though...  I was playing around with quite a few different brands and styles of real acoustic pianos at the music store, a little while ago, and some of them sounded pretty bad.  But so much depends on the acoustics of the room they're in as well as their own capabilities.  I really like the sound of Dianne's real acoustic piano and I haven't heard a MIDI equivelant, yet.  I used to think our Roland HP3000 digital piano was the best synthesized piano I'd ever heard, but I like the SC-55 and SC-8820's acoustic piano sound better....at least for the bottom notes.  Higher notes seem tougher to get right with MIDI synths.

[Alistair]

the SC-55 and SC-8820's acoustic piano sound better....at least for the bottom notes. Higher notes seem tougher to get right with MIDI synths.

Yes, I agree. 'White House Reception', recorded by Tom for the LSL5 soundtrack CD, is a classic example of this. The low notes sound really good and melodic, then when you hear the higher notes it becomes less convincing.
'Honkytonk' piano on the SC-55 is a sound that can't be beat, though.

Ari: If you post the MIDI's in Tom's temp folder, I'll record from the 8850 if Tom will from the 8820..

Regards,
- Alistair

[moturimi1]

I can also record the midi's. I have a SC-8850 and a SC-D70 (similar to the the SC-8820).
Only problem would be, where I can post it. I could also mail the recorded mp3's.

[Ari]

OK, here they are:
wc2piano1
wc2piano2
wc2piano3
wc2piano4

[Tom]

There's 14+ acoustic pianos in the 8820's sound map, not to mention the various honky tonks and other sound map pianos.  I'll just pick my favorite standard, 2-voice, upright piano from the list, so we can compare it to the 8850's 4-voice acoustic upright piano.  And I'll use the fourth song on your list...with CC91 set to 70, and CC93 to 64.  Hall2 (default) reverb.  

Dianne feels that the 8820's European Piano is the only piano that really sounds anything like a REAL piano -- the rest are all way too tinty in the upper registers.  I tend to agree, even though the Euro piano is only 1-voice, it's the most realistic piano I've heard on a SC, but it's still not my favorite.  Though these are good piano pieces, you can't really record a realistic piano track via MIDI.  Anyone who plays a real piano knows just how soft and loud you can play and hear all those neat tones that just can't be input via a MIDI controller; even with good velocity sensitivity -- it's not sensitive enough.

I played these four MIDI's through my SC-8820, then listen to Dianne practicing downstairs on her Yamaha upright, and the SC isn't even close to reality.  But that's the limitations of MIDI.  My Yamaha acoustic guitar sounds beautiful, and I've never been able to find a MIDI guitar that comes anywhere near its sound.  (Which is why I'm doing live recordings for guitar tracks in one of AGDI's soundtracks.)

[Alistair]

And I'll use the fourth song on your list...with CC91 set to 70, and CC93 to 64. Hall2 (default) reverb.

So I use 'wkpiano4', Reverb=70, Chorus=64.

What instrument should I use? For a fair comparison.

- Alistair

[moturimi1]

Hi Alistar, I already recorded the wc2piano4.mid file.

I think Tom wants you (us) to use the Piano2 (CC000,PC002) which has 4 voices. He wants to compare it with the SC-8820 2-voice piano.
I recorded the mid in two ways.
1. with Piano1 (CC000,PC001)
2. with Piano2 (CC000,PC002)
I just don't know where to post the files or whom I can mail the recorded mp3's.  

[Tom]

Didn't you get my email?  I sent it to the email address you requested.

Anyway, I'll try a PM so you can accesss one of my FTP accounts where you can upload the files....

[moturimi1]

Didn't you get my email?  I sent it to the email address you requested.

Anyway, I'll try a PM so you can accesss one of my FTP accounts where you can upload the files....

Yes, I've received your Mail. But both files together are 3 MB big, so I uploaded it on your FTP-Server. But one file is in your Email account too, cause I saw the new PM too late.
They are now online, on the FTP :lol:
Unfortuneately I cut off the first Midi note when I recorded the WC2Piano4-02.mp3 file. Hope this isn't a problem. Otherwiese I have to record the file again.

Now tell me Tom what you think about the SC-8850 GM Piano's in comparison to the SC-8820. I think the SC-8820 Piano1 is too "soft". I like the "strength" of the SC-8850 stereo sampled Piano1.

[Tom]

Here's the SC-8820 (2-element) and SC-8850 (4-element) comparison:

Sample 1

Sample 2


I've never had the chance to hear the 8850's piano before.  THANK YOU!  But all I can really say is, I'm "underwhelmed" by it.  I thought it would sound better by all acounts I've read of it.

[Dianne Lewandowski]

Well, here's my take, guys:  they're both awful. (huge grin here).  And, not much different from one another.  As mentioned, bass nice, upper register like a piano under water.  You know the sound:  your grandmother's piano sitting in a cold basement that hasn't been tuned or fussed with for 40 years.

I have a Kawaii console (not a Yamaha upright), and it's breaking down.  It went from a lovely, not too bright rich sound which no longer holds its tune for more than a few days and more often than not sounds like Grandma's idol old upright.  All pianos break down in time.  Mine was built for about a 15 year life and it's 25 years old and has had tons of use.

Anyway, all these MIDI sounds are interesting to compare.  For instance, I love some of the guitar sounds.  Then, when I hear Tom play, I realize how far off they really are.  He notices it immediately, because it's an instrument near and dear to his heart.

We're all fooled.  Our ears compensate, especially through time away from an actual instrument, not a recorded one, which also gets distorted with the best of sound studios.  

I think the Euro piano on the SC8820/50 is as close as it gets with our equipment with our speaker system.  There's a depth to the upper range and a nice Bosendorfer richness in the lower ranges.  But does it *really* emulate a real piano?  Nah.  Ya just hafta settle for it and adjust your ears.

As an after thought:  Tom just hooked up the SC55 and played the piano piece.  Have to admit it's a teeeeny bit better.  Still problems with the upper range, which - higher you go - begins to sound like bells.

And now through the Yamaha - which ain't too bad.  For me, though, the Euro is the best so far.

[Tom]

My take --

Of the MIDI pianos we have access to, and after hearing the 8850 as well, I think the closest sound to a real piano comes from the original SC-55, followed closely by the Yamaha SW60XG.  I also like the 8820's Euro piano for a more natural sound...when playing solo.  The 8850 piano sounds very much like the 8820's "wide upright" (which is has nice stereo seperation, too.) But I'm not a pianist and don't know pianos intimately.  Guitars are another story.  Processed guitars on just about any MIDI device sound great -- you know, the electric guitar's with fuzz, overdrive, etc. added.  Pretty easy to do, since that's how electric guitar effects are done in real equipment, and since there's so much distortion anyway, you can't really hear the real guitar underneath.   Acoustic guitars, forget it...though again, I like the SC-55's nylon guitar the best of any MIDI nylon's I've heard.

Don't know why I keep thinking my wife's piano is a Yamaha.  Maybe the logo confuses me. :lol:

[moturimi1]

Here's the SC-8820 (2-element) and SC-8850 (4-element) comparison:

Sample 1

Sample 2


I've never had the chance to hear the 8850's piano before.  THANK YOU!  But all I can really say is, I'm "underwhelmed" by it.  I thought it would sound better by all acounts I've read of it.

I think you didn't got it right!!! Where are the SC-8820 files?
I can only see the two files I  sent you.
Both files are from the SC-8850. And both SC-8850 pianos differ from the SC-8820 piano. If you want me to upload the SC-8820 mp3's too, I'll do it.
Sample1 uses the GM Piano1 (SC-8850, 2-voice-element)
Sample2 uses the GM Piano2 (SC-8850, 4 voice-element)
So we don't have a comparison yet.

[Tom]

You didn't label the files you uploaded other than as "1" and "2", so I had no way of knowing which was which...other than by listening....and we didn't notice much difference, if any, between our 8820's output and these files.

But please, go ahead and upload the 8820 files so others can hear the difference, and just post links here like the first two I've posted.    I've been very busy today trying to finish up with the QFG2VGA soundtrack and working with AGDI most of the day, so I really appreciate your doing this.

[moturimi1]

Comparison Update:

Roland SC-8850:
Piano1 http://www.queststudios.com/QuestMusic/WC2Piano4-01-256kBit.mp3
Piano2 http://www.queststudios.com/QuestMusic/WC2Piano4-02-256kBit.mp3

Roland SC-8820:
Piano1 http://www.queststudios.com/QuestMusic/WC2Piano4-SC8820-01-256kBit.mp3
Piano2 http://www.queststudios.com/QuestMusic/WC2Piano4-SC8820-02-256kBit.mp3

Roland SC-55:
Piano1 http://www.queststudios.com/QuestMusic/WC2Piano4-SC55-01-256kBit.mp3
Piano2 http://www.queststudios.com/QuestMusic/WC2Piano4-SC55-02-256kBit.mp3

There are still some things I would like to add.

As I said many times before, I like the SC-55 and the SC-8850 piano1 the most. I think the SC-8820/SC-88pro Piano1 (which are the same) are to warm/dark in comparison to the SC-55. The SC-55 has the right balance between warmth and clearness. The SC-8850 sound really good and even better than the SC-55 in most cases, but misses the warmth of the SC-55. The Piano2 sounds better on the SC-8850 than the SC-55 Piano2. The Yamaha SW60XG Piano1 sounds to clean for me. But maybe because I got used to Roland.

If someone wants to compare the SC-8850 / SC-8820 go to the Edirol homepage:
http://www.edirol.com/products/info/archive/sc8850.html
http://www.edirol.com/products/info/archive/sc8820.html


And as Dianne said before, there are no Soundmodules/Synthesizers that can get near a real piano or any other instrument. I think most people know that. But there are also big differences between real instruments. IT's the same with the Synths.


By the way I just won an auction on Ebay. I get a CM-500 pretty soon!!!!  

[Ari]

I had a listen to both samples, and I must say I'm extremely disappointed.
The SC-55's piano sounds way better than the SC-8820's or 50's.

Basically, I tend to agree with Tom's conclusion...