SC-55 vs ED 55 tones conclusion

[Tom]

Go ahead and link the new files, here.  

Congrats on your new CM-500!  I'm willing to bet you'll be very happy with it.

You're right -- even real pianos have a lot of differences in tone.  So, comparing MIDI sounds is extremely subjective to one's own preferences, as well as their own knowledge and skill level on a given instrument.

Since I've been playing acoustic guitars for nearly 40 years, and have owned and/or played just about every make available over that time, I feel as though I have a good grasp on what it is to emulate an acoustic guitar via MIDI.  Though, like Dianne said, to her...some MIDI acoustic guitars sound very convincing and would pass as the real thing when heard by many people.  To others, it may sound like a toy guitar one might find at their local dime-store.

Another LARGE consideration is what one gets used to hearing, in terms of MIDI.   I didn't like the SC's French Horns when I got my first SC-55, after being used to the MT-32's for so many years.  I've since changed my opinion (especially with the 8820's "Wide French Horns"  -- beautiful!) and the default SC-55 French horn.  They all serve their purpose, though.  I've been using a pretty regular mix of instruments from several MIDI devices for a while, now -- the KQII soundtrack is a good example of a mix of strings and horns from the MT-32, SC, and XG.   I've found it very beneficial at times to play the same instrument, on two different MIDI devices, at the same time -- capturing the best of both.  I've done this even more extensively with the QFG2VGA soundtrack, as you'll probably notice when it's released....in 2008.  (Just kidding.  Should be out in January 2005.)

[Tom]

One final piano sound; the 8820's European piano forte (Program 000, Bank 016):

http://www.QuestStudios.com/QuestMusic/8820EuroPiano.mp3

[moturimi1]

Go ahead and link the new files, here.

I already linked the files in my last message above.

I didn't like the SC's French Horns when I got my first SC-55, after being used to the MT-32's for so many years. I've since changed my opinion (especially with the 8820's "Wide French Horns" -- beautiful!) and the default SC-55 French horn.

I don't even know how a real French Horn sounds like. But I liked the SC55 French horn a lot. When I got the SC-8850 I first had to get used to it, as to some other instruments. I think that's normal. Maybe that's why nobody likes the stereo sampled Piano sounds of the Sc-8850.
But you're right the "Wide Horns" sound... WOW!!!
I still can't get used to the Standard Drum Set1 of the SC-8850, especially some Cymbal sounds.

One final piano sound; the 8820's European piano forte (Program 000, Bank 016):

http://www.QuestStudios.com/QuestMusic/8820EuroPiano.mp3

The SC-8850/SC-8820 and SC-88pro have the same European Piano.
By the way, the SC-8820 has the same capital pianos (and nearly every other capital GM Instrument) as the SC-88pro.

[Tom]

I know...I've been accessing this thread from two PC's and haven't been updating the screen for each.  Just popping in and out between uploads to AGDI.  Missed Ari's post, too.

[moturimi1]

I know...I've been accessing this thread from two PC's and haven't been updating the screen for each.  Just popping in and out between uploads to AGDI.  Missed Ari's post, too.

... and I'm editing my messages too often.  

[Tom]

Damn, you're FAST!!!!

[moturimi1]

I just bought a CM-500 on Ebay...

... and I just sold my SC-D70 ("buy it now") within 2 hours on Ebay.
... Maybe I buy a SD-80 or something like that.
... or a MU-128 ? I don't know what's better.

[Tom]

All I could find was the SAMSUNG SC-D70 DIGITAL CAMCORDER COMPLETE IN BOX.  No Roland SC-D70's on the list.

[moturimi1]

All I could find was the SAMSUNG SC-D70 DIGITAL CAMCORDER COMPLETE IN BOX.  No Roland SC-D70's on the list.

You can't find it anymore, cause it's already sold. Search on Ebay for this item number: 3754107277
Then you can see, how much money I got (and wanted).

[Tom]

I like the picture with the MT-32 underneath.  Nice touch.  :smt023

[moturimi1]

I like the picture with the MT-32 underneath.  Nice touch.  :smt023

I just took my old SC-55 out of the cabinet, where it rested useless for 4 months. Now my old Sc-55 is on Top of the Mt-32. The SC-8850 stands next to them.
I wanted to see and hear if you and Alistar are right about the differences between the SC-55 and the SC-55 map of the other Sound Canvas modules. I haven't found a big difference yet, but maybe it's because I connected the SC-55 audio out to the Sc-8850 audio in.

[shad0wfax]

There's an interesting discussion on piano sounds and "how-does-it-compare-to-the-real-thing" in this topic!

Well, first of all I think that we are missing the point a bit if we try to compare a synth patch "piano" and a real piano. Of course, whoever knows well how a piano sounds (for instance, a piano player), knows that any synth piano preset would not get close enough. Perhaps then the point is which "synth piano" is better or closer to that grand most of us (at least myself) love.

If we are to compare yamaha, roland and korg, I think that roland has the best piano sounds. The pianos of SC series, as far as I know (that is, as far as I have heard) are good, but not oustanding. Nevertheless, they are better than yamaha MU's and, of course, better than Korg's (it's a bit strange, korg has got very good sound patches, but it's terrible on acoustic pianos). Roland has got very high-quality "acoustic" pianos elsewhere (for example, in the new RD series, or in the fantom - XV series). You can take a look at Roland USA (www.rolandus.com), and hear for example the pianos on the Piano SRX expansion card, or the piano patch in the new fantom-X (each single note is sampled in 4 different velocity stages, with a total of more than 700 samples for that single patch). It must be conceded that it's a great piano that gets very close to the real thing.

But if I'd like to have a definitive piano sound, I would take a real piano, just as when you want to do an orchestral arrangement: even the very best digital equipment will not sound as a real orchestra. But synths can do a good job for a good budget, and I think that that's the point: a synth is better if it's a better combination of sound quality, specs and price. And, in this context, I think that Roland is the winner.

[Alistair]

I recorded from my SC-55 for the first time in about a year (probably more) today. Awesome stuff.. easy to underrate this module.

Definitely it's different to the 55 map of ED modules. Listen to a patch like 'Saw Wave'. I find the default 'Strings' patch to also be very different.. much better.

I just took my old SC-55 out of the cabinet, where it rested useless for 4 months. Now my old Sc-55 is on Top of the Mt-32. The SC-8850 stands next to them.

Same here- they're all hooked up! My SC-55 rests on the top of my 8850, which (as always) lies on top of the MT-32.

Reverb characteristics are so much different. I remember Tom telling me he only used 120 reverb in most soundtrack CD's (as an extreme reverb setting, that is). I found I had to always use Hall1 to get the same effect. This seems to be because there's much less reverb with ED.. it's more natural. The SC-55 is more 'bright'. Which I like, it certainly has its' place.

I don't like the SC-55 french horn.. very unrealistic. The MT-32's and ED's are quite good, however.

Some good Pianos in ED.. 'Piano 2''s default patch (Bank 001, program 000) is an example of this.

I don't know about nylons with SC's. Not much cop, are they? I found that ED had 'better possibilities' than the 55 did (usually that means more variations when I say that ;P ).

SC-55 piano can sound better, I think, because of reverb settings. The brightness allows it to play higher notes better than ED, which attempts to sound drier and more realistic- and actually ends up sounding (more) like a clean chromatic percussion instrument (MT-32 pianos were basically altered vibraphones).
I believe that ED pianos (at least the ones on my 8850) can be better than the 55's. I love the electric pianos, very very good, and the grand pianos (Piano 1-2) have some excellent variations. A lot I don't like, though. 'Pop/Rock' Pianos (4 of them) are fairly tame.

- Alistair

[Ari]

As always, it's just a matter of taste, but I actually like the SC-55's french horn. Never liked the Yamaha's horns, though.
When I did the BAK Intro XG version, I combined a french horn solo and 'flughorn' to create something that sounds a little more like the SC-55's french horn. I really liked the way it came out...

[Alistair]

Ari's quite right- 'French Horn' is a patch where how much you like it is largely built on individual taste.
I wouldn't say other patches subscribe to the same rule, though..

I found probably the best example of differing patches- 'Tremolo Str' on the SC-55 and 8850. Just the GM patch (000, 000).

I think they even run on different octaves, or something.

- Alistair

[arfy]

well, to revive a somewhat dated thread, I've got some midi's here that would really show the differences between "8820/50" 55 and a true 55. They are mostly from Kimb burgaard, which make use of plenty of gs reverb, mt-32 sounds and filters...
If someone with both an 8820/50 and a 55 would like to compare these, and either record some samples and/or give us some feedback then that would be nice.
e-mail or PM me if you can help.

thanks

[Alistair]

Well, now we know that the two sets are different. I own both a Roland SC-8850 and a SC-55, and the tone maps for the SC-55 are vastly different. Well, actually, they probably ARE the same, but because of different DAC's and samples, they end up sounding worlds apart.

- Alistair