The SC-8850 is XG compatible

[Chazman]

I kinda found out accidentally. ^_^

It seems when I play an XG MIDI on the SC-8850, the module shows unusual drum and patch names. The drumkits are XG mapped and all of the instrument map seems to be there. However, when I try to change anything on the front panel, the module resets.

In other words, the 8850 can play XG midis, but you can't change anything without resetting the module.

[Tom]

Just curious how you can tell it's the XG map, other than by your display.  The XG files don't play properly on my SC-8820; some of the instruments are correct (vaiations of a standard capital tone), but most are not and they don't balance as they should.  Have you tried playing some XG demo songs?  (The Sierra conversions on this site typically use the standard GM drum kit, so in most cases, the percussion track will be compatible with most sound devices with these files.)  XG uses both controllers 32 and 0 for variation bank selection, whereas, I'm pretty sure Roland only references one or the other.  That is, you can use either controller 0 or 32 for a Roland variation bank, but XG uses the two independently to access variation tones.

I can only go by the output I can hear, since my 8820 doen't have a display.  But the XG song files (other than Sierra conversions) I've tried to play on it don't sound at all like they should sound like, when played through my SW60XG.

[Chazman]

Heh. I conviently don't have any XG Demo songs handy. However, I did go out and find the official XG MIDIs from the PC version of Final Fantasy 7. Those songs used XG effects heavily. So far, they all seem to play fine including EFX and Sound Effects. I don't have any FTP space to upload or I could record some of them.

[HondaSiR]

The 8850 is XG compatible, that's why the module has the XG Lite logo on the front panel display. But I doubt if it sounds 100% similar to an actual XG module. Roland does not own nor produce Yamaha chips, so they can probably just make a good rendition of the sounds that XG makes. Just my two cents worth.

[shad0wfax]

Maybe two points have to be distinguished: having a XG soundmap and being XG compatible. A friend of mine has got a Korg NS5R and it has a XG soundmap, i.e., all the 480 patches from the XG standard, but it's not XG compatible (for example, it doesn't have the three effect processor units which are part of the XG standard). On the other hand, the sound is noticeablily different from XG original equipment. I used to have a Yamaha DB50XG daughterboard and most XG files sounded much better in the Yamaha than in the Korg, despite the fact the Korg was a better synth.

I don't know if the SC-8850 is XG compatible or just has a XG soundmap, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't sound as a "real" yamaha XG gear, because each "standard" is in fact thought for a specific hardware (that's why GM and GS files sound better in Roland synths than in other "compatible" gear).

[Chazman]

Well, it doesn't *sound* like a Yamaha synth. It sounds like a Roland synth. It does seem to have an XG Map and XG effects.

The 8850 is XG compatible, that's why the module has the XG Lite logo on the front panel display.

Huh? I know the SD-90/80 have the XG Lite logo, but I don't see it on the 8850....

[Alistair]

There's no XG logo on the 8850, I assure everyone out there.

And 'XG compatible' maybe, but only as much as the SC-55 is 'MT-32 compatible' ;P

The display gives many hints as to it using XG maps. It uses a different font, uses different names for the drumkits..

In my opinion, this debate was well carried out in this thread here:
http://www.queststudios.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=974

- Alistair

[HondaSiR]

Sorry guys, my mistake...yep the XG Lite logo that I mentioned earlier is found on the lower end SD modules and not the 8850.

Bottom line is, not even the best of Roland's synth modules is capable of accurately reproducing Yamaha's XG synth engine. Roland probably designed it that way in order to avoid copyright infringements from Yamaha.

[Chazman]

I think Roland has every right to create a "partially compatible" XG mode. After all, most Yamaha XG devices have a "partially compatible" SC-88 mode (TG300B) =P

[Alistair]

Point is, the 8850 does quite a bad job of emulating any song file that's been really tweaked and tailored to be played back on a SW60 or 1000 XG card (MU90/100).

I can't wait for my XG module. It'll be so interesting to hear it..

- Alistair

[Cloudschatze]

I'm going to chime in here...

Several years ago both Roland and Yamaha entered an agreement by which both companies would standardize MIDI compatibility by introducing each others' proprietary format into their products. Enter Roland's more recent SoundCanvas modules, which sport the XGLite logo. While XGLite may not faithfully reproduce XG MIDI compositions, being mainly an XG patch-map, Yamaha's MU-2000EX displays the GS logo, and it is my assumption (having never heard one), that it's probably the most widely-compatible of all modules for this reason.

[shad0wfax]

In fact, I remember that my old DB50XG (and some other Yamaha MU synths) had a "TG300B mode", which claims to be GS compatible, even at sysex level. Despite that, as far as I know (with the exception of the MU2000EX), no Yamaha synth wears the GS logo. Other than that, one thing is compatibility with standards and other one is actual sound. You cannot get good GS sound with yamaha gear, just as you cannot get good XG sound with other than yamaha gear. At least that's my opinion after listening to some models.