The complete SQ1 soundtrack

[achile464]

I see it in MT-32. But, I'm not a Roland MT-32 card's owner. So, could someone can convert it at least in GS or GM

[Alistair]

SQ1's music can be very bland and boring in GM. Even Roland GM.. though maybe if Tom added the same SC-55 EFX he did with the SQ6 soundtrack it could be improved.

Well, I did do a stint of GM recordings a (LONG) while back. Maybe it could be done. Hmm. I'll get back to you.. might rekindle some fond old memories, at that.

I don't promise anything, but rather than a conversion I could record the official Sierra GM soundtrack (there is General MIDI support for SQ1 that's reasonable). It's quite good in places, and obviously the pieces Sierra didn't convert properly I'd convert from the MT version at any rate.

Schedule is booked for a while though.. my musical one that is. I'd be guessing Ari Stone'd chomp at the bit for this. If not, after Christmas I'll look into a GM effort.

- Alistair

[achile464]

Maybe in GS should do with all the SFX

[Tom]

I could record the official Sierra GM soundtrack (there is General MIDI support for SQ1

I was unaware that Sierra ever created a General MIDI soundtrack for this game.  I'll be most interested to hear it!  I believe they did later create a Sound Blaster AWE mix...(a driver for AWE support) which by all definitions, is not General MIDI.  Would you be able to share one or two songs from the GM soundtrack?  I'd really like to hear (and see) how it was done.  As far as I knew, SQ4 was the only SQ game that underwent a Sierra conversion from MT-32 to General MIDI.

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I'll put the SQ1 General MIDI soundtrack on my todo list as well.  If Alistair is too busy to record or convert it, then maybe I can do it.  As I recall, there's not much to that one.  Though I'll need a copy of the game which has GM support; my copy doesn't.

[achile464]

I have the Ad-Lib option.Btw can you do it in GS for King quest 5 too

[Zemus]

The SQ1 GM soundtrack was a part of the AWE32 update pack that Creative and Sierra released. The other games that already supported GM didn't get a new mix for the AWE32 update, just new drivers so perhaps that's the case with SQ1 too?

Tom, you keep saying the AWE32 is not GM compatible, or rather that the mixes aren't. What exactly is the difference?

[Tom]

Many of the AWE and SC sounds are vastly different in several ways:  Instrument attack rate, decay, timbre volume, velocity sensitivity, and most importantly, overall general sound quality.  

For example, there are some instances where a String or French horn track playing at a low velocity on the SC will not even be heard on the AWE....or the other way around.  Much depends on what instruments are being used.  Percussion and keyboards are pretty equal on all MIDI devices.   It's also pretty well known that Creative had their own proprietary standard...which they called "General MIDI" on the AWE line of synthesizers, when in fact, it didn't conform to the GM specifications.

I did a tremendous amount of AWE conversions before getting my first SC.  When I played those conversions on my SC, I was really miffed because the balance was way off for many of the songs.  This is why I have TWO GM categories on this site.  And since Roland created the GM standard (ignored by Creative Labs), that's the one I give priority.  The difference can be likened to XG GM compared to SC GM.  (At least XG follows the basic GM specifications.)  But the sounds are often quite different between the two, and do not balance the same all of the time.  This is one of the reasons Roland created GM2.  I don't think Creative Labs has even attempted to state any of their newer cards are GM2 compliant, have they?

There are many examples where the majority of the music in a MIDI song file may balance well on several GM devices.  When I notice that happening, I'll often state something like "should play well on most MIDI devices..."

So as far as I'm concerned, to record a Sierra soundtrack using the "AWE32" driver is not recording a GM soundtrack.  It's recording an AWE32 soundtrack.  I brought this up to Sierra's web team a while back and they kind of said it was a cheap solution to the onslaught of SB cards being used.  When I do post a SQ1 GM soundtrack, it won't be one recorded with the AWE32 driver.  One composes based on the instrument (i.e. MIDI gear) being used.  You simply can't compose something for one device and expect it to playback properly on a different device.  But there's always some parts that may work out fine...

[Alistair]

I have the Ad-Lib option.Btw can you do it in GS for King quest 5 too

I started converting KQ5 for GM a while back.. GS is rather pointless because the only 'helpful' sound effect it has is the Dog patch. Big deal. No lasers or doors or anything useful in SC-55 GS for KQ5, in my opinion, GM handles the game's music very well. Even some of the SFX, if you're handy with the SC-55's GM bank.

'Kay, back to SQ1.

The SQ1 GM soundtrack was a part of the AWE32 update pack that Creative and Sierra released. The other games that already supported GM didn't get a new mix for the AWE32 update, just new drivers so perhaps that's the case with SQ1 too?

I disagree, Zemus. There was a huge array of AWE32 drivers going around, I could never get SQ1's to work. I'm referring to 'General MIDI', not AWE32 MIDI.
SQ1 definitely has a 'Roland GM' driver.

I was unaware that Sierra ever created a General MIDI soundtrack for this game. I'll be most interested to hear it! I believe they did later create a Sound Blaster AWE mix...(a driver for AWE support) which by all definitions, is not General MIDI. Would you be able to share one or two songs from the GM soundtrack? I'd really like to hear (and see) how it was done. As far as I knew, SQ4 was the only SQ game that underwent a Sierra conversion from MT-32 to General MIDI.

Someone posted a GM conversion of 'Two Guys' Commentary' not long ago (unsure if it was you or Ari, Tom) but it sounded very similar to the GM support I get from the driver. I'll record something and post it this weekend, time permitting (Busy, long, HOT week. 35 today..)

For SQ1 in GM, it's rather simple. The default orchestral sorta patches- trumpets, strings, trombones, pizz, etc.. - convert across rather easily. And the SFX either do or don't convert.

One of those 'annoying' Sierra scores with a mix of good music and boring sound effect pieces, with the result a rather 'thin' sounding score that doesn't cover the whole game. Ah well. Some good memories there.

- Alistair

[Zemus]

I disagree, Zemus. There was a huge array of AWE32 drivers going around, I could never get SQ1's to work. I'm referring to 'General MIDI', not AWE32 MIDI.
SQ1 definitely has a 'Roland GM' driver.

Then why did Sierra feel it necessary to create a PAT-file for it when they released the AWE32 drivers? It's not even listed in the readme-file as a native GM game. I can't find any traces of GM compatibility in the original floppy version nor the SQ collection.

From the MIDI Manufacturer's Association:

General MIDI's most recognized feature is the defined list of sounds or "patches". However, General MIDI does not actually define the way the sound will be reproduced, only the name of that sound.

Though this can obviously result in wide variations in performance from the same song data on different GM sound sources, the authors of General MIDI felt it important to allow each manufacturer to have their own ideas and express their personal aesthetics when it comes to picking the exact timbres for each sound.

Each manufacturer must insure that their sounds provide an acceptable representation of song data written for General MIDI. Guidelines for developing GM compatible sound sets and song data are available through the MMA.

So the AWE32 can call itself General MIDI compatible. However, whether a MIDI-file that was designed for the SC-55 would play back well on it, is another question

[Alistair]

It's not *proper* GM support. But then again neither was SQ4!

However it IS Roland GM support (as was SQ4). The fact that it was after-market support (which it was) isn't an issue here. It's still a GM driver which is for Roland SC-55 synths, not AWE32. Anyone who has a SC-55 will appreciate that.

There was a stack of AWE32 drivers around for Sierra SCI1 games, such as SQ1VGA. But I'm referring to the GM ones.

The documentation also gives various hints as to the Roland GM usage. Such as the other patches all being for Roland synths. Such as the driver being for Roland MPU devices. Such as the GM patch map listings using the 'Roland GS Capital Tone' names rather than GM names (i.e. not 'synth 1 [sawtooth]' or whatever, Roland GM calls it 'Saw Wave')

An earlier point I wanted to make about the AWE32- I finished recording the SQ6 MIDI soundtrack from the SC-55 yesterday. Because I was recording using my AWE32 as a MIDI interface, I thought I'd go back and use the real AWE32 driver- the only official AWE32 driver for Sierra games- and have a listen. Results were pretty dissapointing. I thought the AWE32 sounded better than that!

- Alistair

[Zemus]

When I mentioned the AWE32 pack and that the GM patch for SQ1VGA was included with that, I never said it was made specifically for the AWE32. The PAT-file added GM-support to the game and then you could use the general MIDI driver together with AWEUTIL to transmit the MIDI to the AWE32's synth instead of a MIDI interface.
Where did you find the GM patch if it wasn't included with the AWE32 pack? And what documentation are you talking about? I haven't been able to find a stand-alone patch for SQ1VGA.

By the way, the AWE32 doesn't sound that bad if you try to play back something that was made for it: http://s-island.mixnmojo.com/stuff/BSG.ogg.

[achile464]

Bah Creative have only the MT-32 on bank 127 (the standard one that was use in SQ3GS on this site)

I don't know why the instrument of SQ1MT on this site haven't the same place as the MT-32 standard set I.E. the Jazz Guitar goes on Instrument Patch 0 etc. BTW my card (an Audigy 2 ZS) can read GM,GS,MT (Standard set on Bank 127),SC,88 only (Depending of the Soundfont I use).

[Zemus]

The MT-32 could be programmed with new sounds and you could also rearrange the order of the original sounds. Sierra games used this a lot to create special effects and add new instruments to their soundtracks.

[achile464]

That's why it sound strange in vanbasco even I use the Sysex embedded (who dosen't work anyway on creative card)

[Tom]

By the way, the AWE32 doesn't sound that bad if you try to play back something that was made for it:

Most definitely!  I've heard a lot of nice sounding AWE MIDI files!  It all depends on how a MIDI is composed -- if it's arranced for the AWE, it should sound pretty good.  And I feel the AWE has an excellent piano sound.

Alistair, since we're not familiar with the SQ1VGA GM support, could you upload the documentation and GM driver so we, too, can have it?  I'll post it for everyone.  I just looked again at my SQ1VGA game, and GM is not an option, nor is there any mention of GM, anywhere -- on the diskette verion or the SQ Collection.

[Alistair]

Uh, I got it from QuestStudios.. (Utilities section)

http://www.queststudios.com/quest/Utilities.html

- Alistair

[Tom]

Then something may not have worked right when I tried it.  Maybe I need to do a fresh install of the game.  Think I'll give that a shot.

[Zemus]

As I said earlier, the GM patch that came with the GM driver is the exact same one that came with the AWE32 pack. Even did a hash check
The only difference is that the AWE32 driver sends the MIDI to the AWE32's synth instead of a MIDI interface like the GM driver does. I guess Sierra never made an AWE32-optimized soundtrack.

[Zemus]

If anyone's interested, here's a recording I did of the first few mins from SQ1VGA using the GM patch. I don't have my computers set up to record MIDI at the moment, so it's in OGG-format: http://s-island.mixnmojo.com/stuff/sq1-gm.ogg

[Alistair]

I assume this was recorded with a Roland General MIDI device (SC-55 compat)?

Sounds so to me. You can hear how some of the sounds convert well from the MT-32.

Of course there's no 'Deep Snare' in GM, and should be ported to the drumkit or 'Synth Drum' or something. The driver's not perfect, but very good all the same, I feel.

EDIT: After hearing the whole track, this brings back lots of memories. You can hear how well so many of the MT sounds have been converted to GM.

- Alistair