SB Audigy

[Tom]

Is there any way to disable the Automatic Recording Level feature of a Sound Blaster Audigy card?  I dispise this feature even though it seems to prevent clipping.  You can't record the 'true velocity' of music with ARL enabled.  I know just about everything these days uses ARL, but you would expect that at least on a digital sound card, you'd be able to disable it.  Older SB's, and my Santa Cruz don't use ARL, but my Santa Cruz is in another PC and I don't want to run audio lines across my room for recording and risk adding more noise.  I've looked through the Audigy's recording options and see no mention of this...

[Tom]

I found a temporary, psuedo solution for this ARL problem, but I'd rather record properly to begin with.

If I record several decibals below optimum levels, I can apply an amplify transform to the track -- but these amplification transforms amplify everything, including noise, so I'd rather not do this.  Noise filters I've experienced don't work well, either; they seem to introduce some sort of phase shift effect to the sound -- sometimes pretty significant.

[Alistair]

Not sure exactly what you mean by this, but might explain why my Audigy and Live! sound different.

Do you mean when you hit the record button of Cool Edit, for example, the volume of the recorded MIDI is higher than if you played the MIDI back? Or what does the 'ARL' feature do?

- Alistair

[Zemus]

I don't know exactly what you mean by ARL. I know the SB16 had it on the mic input, but it could be easily turned off in the mixer. My Audigy 2 changes recording level automatically if it reaches the top (in Cool Edit that's 0dB) to prevent clipping. But that means everything's turned up too loud to begin with
The recording tab in the mixer does amplify the input signal by 6dB if you set it to 100%. If you want to record without any kind of amplification, set it to 50%. I know the latest mixer shows the amplification in dB, but the older versions didn't.

Regarding noise filters, I've tried the noise reduction filter in Adobe Audition 1.5 (formerly Cool Edit Pro 2) and I've found it to work well when it comes to remove the noise my CM-500 generates. If the noise from the MT-32, or whatever you're recording from, is louder then it may introduce artifacts.

[Tom]

Well, even if I turn recording volume way down so that it's peaking at -30 or -60 decibals, the music is recorded so that any peak level will not go above these settings...even though it's far, far from clipping.  For example, if average record level is set to -60 db,  a couple of loud timpani hits that SHOULD be heard louder than rest of the music (say, -20), will flatten out at -60 and won't record louder.

ARL was designed for tape recording.  I first saw it in old cassette recorders back in the late 60's/early 70's.  Most VCR's use it, too;  I had to pay extra for VCR's that allow realtime sound recording level adjustment.  ARL was designed so that when music or sound is too low in volume, the recorder automatically boosts the recording level to compensate so that it's closer in volume to the rest of the sound being recorded.

For recording orchestrated music, this stinks because some portions are designed to be VERY quiet or VERY loud.  Or, they're simply designed to be contrasting in volume.  Since a lot of game soundtracks are also designed this way, ARL can rob you of the subtleties the composer wanted to express.  Listen to any CD of an orchestra and you'll see that ARL is never used.

I've never had a sound card before that did this!  The Audigy is the first I've noticed.  I don't want Creative to help me decide what's my best recording level to prevent clipping; I want to do it myself.

[Alistair]

So you're saying that you're assuming the Audigy uses it, or you know?
Sounds like some annoying feature Creative would sneak in, though. No love lost between me and my Audigy 2.

God question- you using the Audigy or Audigy 2?

The 'ARL' feature sounds like a sort of normalisation feature. Yeecccch.

- Alistair

[Tom]

That's essentially what automatic recording level is -- an extreme form of normalization.  And yes, I know the Audigy (what I have) is using it; it's obvious when monitoring VU meters when sound is piped through the card.

I just figured, being a newer 'gee-wiz' card, I'd try it for some digital recordings.  But I think I'll just stick to using my Santa Cruz, or AWE64, instead.

[Zemus]

Do you have Creative MediaSource installed? According to Soundblaster.com, you can enable/disable ARVL (automatic recording volume leveling) with that program. Maybe it's enabled there and it influences the other programs as well. Isn't the Santa Cruz and the AWE64 pretty old cards? They probably don't have very good ADCs...

[Tom]

The Santa Cruz is every bit as good, frequency wise, as the Audigy.  I use it, almost exclusively, for DVD audio recording...since my DVD recorder is in the same PC.  Sounds great!  But yes, it's at least 5 years old.  The AWE64....8-10 years old?  But it doesn't have that damn 'ARVL'.

That's the one program I DIDN'T install...MediaSource.  I'll do that tomorrow!  Thanks for letting me know; I kind of ignored all the docs that came with that card.  Hell, I'm still trying to get through the instruction manual for my cell phone.  Bought a new gas range (stove) the other day, and the damn thing's all computerized.  I'll probably never read and learn how to use it.   But as long as I can operate my coffee maker, I'm good.  

[Ari]

When all else fails - read the manual... :wink:

[Alistair]

Argh! This topic just triggered something in my brain tonight. I think it was Zemus mentioning MediaSource..

I realise now my SB Live! uses the damned 'ARL', except it calls it 'ARVL'. I had it turned on! Now I'm going to have to rerecord all the Police Quest 1 VGA digital tracks (23 of them!!) I recorded from my Rolands tomorrow. Grr..

To quote my SB Live! function in Creative Recorder (the Live!'s digital recording utility):

Select the Enable Automatic Recording Volume Limiter (ARVL) check box in the Monitor section of the Recorder Settings dialog box if you want Recorder to automatically keep down the recording volume level when it exceeds the maximum level. This prevents distortion when you are recording.

Tom- a question. Do I have to record everything again? Or would it only be a problem if the volume of my recordings are near the peak decibel level?

- Alistair

[Tom]

I wouldn't.  I used the Audigy to record parts of Code-Name: Iceman, and I'm satified with the output.  (At least enough that I'm not going to re-record it.)  But now that I know that ARVL can be shut off, that's the next thing I'm doing this morning!  The "SQ1 Intro" I just uploaded used the Audigy with ARVL enabled, too, but that one I AM going to record over.

[Tom]

I just hunted through every byte of data on the Audigy installation CD and read the on-line text regarding included software, and there is nothing called "MediaSource", and there's no option for it during installation.  I did a complete install (except for the demo files) and it's not a program that came with my card.  The card is officially known as the "Audigy MP3+" card, which only means that the software included with it differes from other cards in the Audigy line.  All the other software controls work just fine and control the card as discribed.  (i.e., the Surround Mixer, equalizer, inputs, outputs, effects, etc.)

Nevertheless, I finally did find an option that allowed me to disable the "ARVL" feature, in Creative Recorder.  It was disabled by default.  But as far as I can tell, it doesn't work, anyway.  Whether the button is enabled or disabled, the recording is the same....AUTOMATIC LEVEL to prevent distortion and clipping.

[Kaminari]

My CM-500 is plugged into the Line-In socket of my Live card. I was scratching my head wondering why the playback level was very good but the recording level was extremely low, even with the recording tab in the mixer set at 100%. Seems like the dreaded ARVL is at work here. Does it mean I have to install Creative Recorder just to be be able to get rid of this feature? I just hate that program.

[Tom]

I couldn't find anything else among the included software that mentioned ARVL, except that Recorder.  (You'd think the Surround Mixer would have access to that option, too, since it does have controls for recording mix.)

I'd be curious to know if there's any difference for you if you disable the ARVL on your card.  If you monitor record levels with Creative's cute little VU meters, it's kind of hard to tell what's going on -- they're not very precise.  But I used those along with the VU's in Gold Wave and Cool Edit 2000 and they all indicate recording volume goes to a specific point, and is normalized so that nothing is recorded any louder than that; a loud explosion peaks at the same level as a piano track.

[Zemus]

I've been fiddling with the recording functions. It turns out my card has some kind of limiter too, but it's set to work only when the recording level reaches -3dB, so I've never been bothered with it. This is when I have the recording tab set to 50%(0dB amplification). If I set it to 3dB amplification, I can record all the way up to 0dB.

To me it seems like the card reduces/amplifies the volume after the signal has been digitized, and that it works in a 16-bit space. So if the synth plays at a level higher than whatever the level the input operates on, it gets clipped simply because the volume exceeds the maximum 16-bit value. In other words, it's more like a limitation in the card's hardware than a setting. My suggestion would be to turn down the volume on the synth so it doesn't go above the max level the card can take and set the card to amplify the signal 3dB. That way you should be able to record without any kind of limiter.
I don't know if it's the card's fault for having a too sensitive input or if it's the synth's fault for having a too loud output (I don't know if the one you use has a line output, or if it has a built-in amp).

Kaminari: Is the rec tab set to record "what u hear" or only the input? If it's set to "what u hear" it's dependent on the level you set under the playback tab as well.

[Tom]

Zemus, that's what I finally ended up doing ... or am in the process of doing -- what you described in your post.  Seems to be overcoming the problem (for the most part) but takes some getting used to.  It's harder to adjust the output mix from three sound cards after I've already mixed their output at their highest volume levels when I was originally creating the tracks.  But it's do-able; just a pain in the butt for some of the songs that use the MT-32, SC-8820, and SW60XG.

[Alistair]

Zemus, that's what I finally ended up doing ... or am in the process of doing

So what did you do, Tom?
Excuse my ignorance, it's early, and at any rate, I'd like to know exactly what your 'solution' to this problem is.

- Alistair

[Tom]

Turn the volumes down on the MIDI output devices so that they're not overwhelming the limits of the Audigy's input and causing ARVL to be implemented.

[Alistair]

Thank you very much! I might end up rerecording all these tracks anyway.

Regards,
- Alistair