Leisure Suit Larry 3 -- New Digital Soundtrack Version

[Tom]

Thanks to shad0wfax, a new version of the Leisure Suit Larry 3 soundtrack is available for download, converted and recorded from the Roland Fantom XR.  shad0wfax (David) converted the original MT-32 score for the XR, then encoded the songs in High Quality (192 kbps) MP3 format.

You'll find the new XR version on the same LSL3 digital soundtrack page, with links to each song file added below the existing track.

Thanks again, shad0wfax!!

[Saurax]

Oh my goodness, this is an amazing synth!  The LSL3 soundtrack is one of my favourites, especially "The Incredible Dork" and "Dewey, Cheatem & Howe" songs.

The clarity of the FantomXR is incredible.  The drumkit is very crisp too.

[HondaSiR]

Yeah...while I've just been able to listen to some of the tracks (due to my humble 56K ISP), I agree that the XR really kicks ass in rendering the music. It's ceiling-high price tag is clearly justified. Thanks for giving us the listening pleasure Shadowfax.  

[Blackwolf]

Definately justifies the price tag for the XR!

I have a Roland TD-20-S drumkit, never tried running MIDI files through the synth yet...Not sure how great the actual musical instruments are, but the drum sounds are fantastic on it...

[Ari]

I've started listening to the new soundtrack, and to tell the truth, it sounds a little... em... weird.
I like the saxophone in the "Nontoonyt Resort" song, for instance, but somehow, the backing instruments in most of the tracks don't work as well as in Tom's version and the original version.
A certain warmness is missing from the songs. The instruments are a little too crisp, perhaps.

I've only listened to the first 5 tracks so far, so I don't know if it's just these tracks or not. At any rate, good work, Shad0fax!
It's nice to hear how these songs sound on newer modules.  

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edit: Track 6 (Tawnee at the Beach) sounds great, btw!

[Tom]

What I think you're prbably noticing in some of the sounds is the reduction of reverb; it was the first thing I noticed -- a reduced 'warmth' or 'depth' to the sounds.  (The MT-32 and SC default to a pretty substantial amount of reverb.)  

But for the most part, the sounds are more convincing; more true to the real instrument...as they might be heard playing in a small, closed environment, like my den.  I'm not sure if shad0wfax compensated for instrument strength between the MT-32 and XR as there are portions of the soundtrack that come across weak, even though the actual instrument sound may be better.  There are obviously a lot of differences between attack and decay rates for many of the XR's and MT-32's sounds; that, too, was one of the first things I noticed.

I listened to quite a bit of the soundtrack on my way to work yesterday and the actual instruments did sound more realistic to me.  We're used to hearing how LSL3 sounds on the MT-32 and/or SC, and it also may be influencing our expectations to some degree.  

[shad0wfax]

Thanks to everybody for your comments on my conversion. The only reason for what I did it was that I really like the original soundtrack and I thought that it would be nice to have it in a newer, more up-to-date synth with more realistic sounds. It's a pretty direct conversion, so it doesn't really show up the Fantom's potential. On the other hand, the final result has also depended on my personal tastes. Let me explain.

As many have noticed, there is, as a general rule, a smaller amount of reverb in the fantom version. That's not because the Fantom cannot handle very deep reverbs, but it's a personal choice. I simply don't like to much reverb in the music. A bit of reverb it's OK, but as soon as there is too much, it makes the music muddier and it actually doesn't improve the sound (to my opinion). So that's why the sound may result a bit 'hard' or there may be less 'warmth'. I prefer clear, crisp sound.

Another problem I encountered when making the conversion is that, as I told to Tom, many of the Fantom patches are very sensitive to velocity variations in order to acheive a wide dynamic range (from pianissimo to fortissimo). That makes some tracks sound a bit weak, but that's not because Fantom patches are themselves weak, but because they were recorded with low velocity settings. In the MT-32 there are less timbre variations, but in may cases in the Fantom the changes are dramatic. To accurately convert each track to make them sound close to the MT-32 original would be A LOT of work, and I don't wanna make that job, at least by now.

Thanks agains for your comments.

[Tom]

An excellent point:  shad0wfax wasn't trying to make the Fantom sound like a MT-32; he was presenting an alternative to the MT-32 that, for my money, was successfully accomplished.  It's often no easy task to convert from one synth to another, especially between synths that are nowhere close to sounding the same.  The MT-32 and SC are relatively easy conversions; MT-32 and XG, not so easy.

Back in the days before everyone and their uncle had a MT-32, I was always trying to create Sound Canvas (which many more had) conversions that sound like the MT-32.  The goal was to allow others to hear how the score was originally composed, as closely as possible.  I more or less quit doing that over the past couple of years (and received some negative responsis because of it.)  With digital files being relatively small -- and the norm today, there's no reason why several versions can't co-exist, and Sierra soundtracks exploited a bit more.  

I'm a big fan of reverb, though.  However, there are LOTS of times I have removed practically every trace of it, for effect.  The lack of reverb does often make things sound more realistic.  In the case of most Sierra soundtracks, I find that reverb helps fill in some gaps because of the often low number of available timbres that could simultaneously play on the original MT-32 score.  When I compose, I adjust reverb all over the map; sometimes practically nothing, to way over-the-top.  It depends on my preferences, and what I FEEL is appropriate for the mood I'm trying to create.

[HondaSiR]

Shadowfax: You've made a strong point. Since you are the one who graciously recorded the music, it would be well justified that you be given the preference of conversion. It's your sound module (and no cheap one at that!) and reverb or no reverb, it still makes the high grade for me.

Tom: You've also made a strong point in explaining to everyone Shadowfax's point (errr am I making sense?) :lol:  Thanks very much for adding the XR version to the soundtrack options, it pretty much opens the door to this extraordinary sounding module.  

[Tom]

Speaking of cost, are these too new to be found at a lower price?

Also was curious as to the 'vocal' sounds.  How are they?  More convincing than the SC88xx?  Better range?  The SC8820's vocals have an extremely limited usefulness; slightly better than half an octave for most synthetic voices.

I'm planning on one more major synth purchase within the next year or two, and the Fantom is really looking good to me.  Also considering Yamaha, but I want something that does a good job with voices and my experience with Yamaha doesn't sway me in their direction.

[HondaSiR]

I think one of Shadowfax's compositions has a robotic voice towards the beginning of the track. Sounds good to me but more samples should be arranged since Tom has plans on purchasing one...yipeeee!!!  

[shad0wfax]

Speaking of cost, are these too new to be found at a lower price?

The normal price for the Fantom XR is about USD 1400. But it's quite easy to find them in eBay in very good condition for about USD 1000. I bought mine for USD 1000, it was an ex-demo module and it came as new (even with the original packaging and software). SRX expansion cards cand be found in eBay for USD 150-250 each.

Also was curious as to the 'vocal' sounds. How are they? More convincing than the SC88xx? Better range?

In my experience, I can say that there's hardly a dull sound in the Fantom XR (and that's a very positive thing considering there are more than 1000 patches). Once this said, I think that Fantom strong points are guitars (both acoustic and electric), pianos and "acoustic" instruments in general. Voices are good, although not spectacular, I would say. But there are extremely good voice patches in some expansion cards, such as SRX-06 (complete orchestra), and SRX-03 (Studio SRX). You can find even weird things such as jazz scats, gregorian chants or lovely kid's choirs.

I'm planning on one more major synth purchase within the next year or two, and the Fantom is really looking good to me. Also considering Yamaha, but I want something that does a good job with voices and my experience with Yamaha doesn't sway me in their direction

The Yamaha Motif ES rack seems to be an excellent sound module, and it's slightly cheaper than the Fantom XR. On the other hand, it has no sampler section, which can be useful (you can use sample libraries or sample your own sounds to make new patches useable as midi instruments). I've only heard the demos, but it seems that there's been a great improvement since the MU-100, which is the best yamaha gear I was able to listen to. Also, Yamaha has always had an excellent effects section, and the Motif ES is no exception (both the Fantom and the Motif have reverb, chorus and EQ, but whereas the Fantom has "only" 3 multiFX, the Motif has 8!). I think you cannot go wrong with either the Fantom or the Motif. As a personal taste, I found the motif sound a bit too much "clean". It sounds so polite that it's a bit unrealistic. Don't take me wrong, the Fantom also sounds very clean, and the Motif's sound is very good, but I find that the slightly more "dirty" sound of the Fantom makes the overall sound more realistic.

[Alistair]

To me, although these 'new' recordings are cool (always nice to see new music in the community, and new people recording ) they actually sum up how I feel about what's been done with LSL3's music as yet. Lots of good stuff, but not every track has been done optimally.. yet. Tom with his 8820 and now Shadowfax with his XR have given us a taste, but not a full soundtrack..

Just on the XR, I haven't listened to that much, but it sounds quite nice. A few conversions sounded wrong here and there (I'd say Shadowfax either did it delibarately, or wasn't familiar with all the MT-32 default patches, and in the case of pianos, wasn't experienced enough- I hate electric pianos used wrongly, like in Nontoonyt or Dewey ) but some were really nice, as Ari said, Nontoonyt Hoel. Though I think it was just the flute on its' normal octave (as in, same as the MT-32 original and not a sax (I think in Tom's GS version that appears on the CD, he bent it an octave up).

Yes, I also agree about the drums. Very promising.. I think the XR would work optimally mixed with Roland modules.
Would especially love to hear SC-55 pianos mixed with XR ones..

1000 USD, huh? Looks like I'll be passing for now (for a long now!).
I've also never been a fan of modules requiring 'expansion cards' to upgrade timbre capabilities..

EDIT: By the way- Tom, can you repost ALL the LSL3 files as OGG's? That'd be much appreciated..

- Alistair

[Ari]

but some were really nice, as Ari said, Nontoonyt Hoel. Though I think it was just the flute on its' normal octave (as in, same as the MT-32 original and not a sax (I think in Tom's GS version that appears on the CD, he bent it an octave up).
- Alistair

Aren't you mistaking the "Nontoonyt Island song" theme with the "Nontoonyt Resort" theme? I'm pretty sure it's a sax there and not a flute.

Anyway, upon further listening, I've heard several more XR conversions I liked, such as "Fat City" and "The Incredible Dork" ('Fat' Especially), but  nonetheless, there are quite a few tracks that certainly need to be worked upon, and a simple straight foreward conversion just doesn't cut it.
I'm not sure I like the XR drumkit that was used here. it's a little too flat...

I'd really like to hear a good XR conversion of the Space Quest 3 theme. I know it's very difficult to convert to today's standards (Been there, done that - with the XG version I did a year ago).

Hmmm... Never thought I'd sound like Alistair...  :wink:

[Tom]

Personally, I think this is a wonder mix and I think shad0wfax's arrangements sound very natural and real.  I'm pleased that the soundtrack isn't trying to be a clone of how the MT-32 sounds; or try to be like my SC conversions, which are nothing more than an attempt to emulate the MT-32.  Instead, this is a fresh arrangement, and for my money, one that's done well.  (If I were doing another remix of LSL3, I'd probably be adding a lot of new tracks as well; my head is always hearing harmonies that are missing.)  But I'm not, and I'm glad shad0wfax has.

The Fantom is continuing to amaze me as I listen to these songs a few times.  I'm around band instruments all the time.  (Dianne's a music teacher, and works a lot with kids practicing all sorts of band instruments.) I've not heard a MIDI device that sounded more natural up to now.  I may have...possibly...mixed a couple of songs a little differently, but not significantly.  I like the percussion very much and the sound choices he used.

I hope shad0wfax might be willing to do more translations in the future.  They'll certainly be welcome!  Perhaps if "Al Emmo and the Lost Dutchman's Mine" is a big hit, and we all become rich, I can buy my own XR.  

[shad0wfax]

Thanks a lot to everyboby for your positive and not so positive comments on the Fantom XR conversion. I appreciate all comments on it. I agree with all of you who say that there are some tracks which need some rework. I'd like to know which tracks do you think need most to be 'revisited', and please give me detailed info, if possible, about the needed improvements. I'll try to correct them, if I can.

[Alistair]

Aren't you mistaking the "Nontoonyt Island song" theme with the "Nontoonyt Resort" theme? I'm pretty sure it's a sax there and not a flute.

No- Nontoonyt Island doesn't use any wind instruments, unless you count a shak
I know LSL3's soundtrack pretty well. Probably due to the amount of times I've listened to Tom's CD on my CD-R! I'm pretty sure what I said about flutes was right. The only way you're right about the sax is if Shadowfax converted it. I've not listened in any great detail- maybe he can clear it up.
To be clear, neither track in the original version uses a sax.

I agree with everything else Ari's said, and never thought I'd say that! But he's dead right. Fat City is NICE.

Thanks a lot to everyboby for your positive and not so positive comments on the Fantom XR conversion. I appreciate all comments on it. I agree with all of you who say that there are some tracks which need some rework. I'd like to know which tracks do you think need most to be 'revisited', and please give me detailed info, if possible, about the needed improvements. I'll try to correct them, if I can.

Yeah- I'll be contacting you for sure.

With regards to LSL3- a good start would be replacing all the electric piano sounds you use with Honkytonk ones.. Assuming the XR has a good H-tonk. I don't like many Honkytonk sounds that I've heard.. (XG's suck )

- Alistair

[shad0wfax]

With regards to LSL3- a good start would be replacing all the electric piano sounds you use with Honkytonk ones.. Assuming the XR has a good H-tonk. I don't like many Honkytonk sounds that I've heard.. (XG's suck  )

My main thought was about volume levels (compensation between tracks, non-even volumes at the same track, etc.), not about intrument selection (that doesn't mean that this cannot be discussed as well). What I mean is that instrument selection highly depends on personal preferences. I've used electric pianos because I like them (I've not only used FM-like pianos, but also rhodes-like in several tracks). Anyway, I've tried to exchange some electric pianos for a honkytonk, but I didn't like the results (that's again a matter of personal taste; I like ep's over h-tonk's). But if there's a general consensus about that, with all the people claiming against ep's, I'll remove them...

[Ari]

So, shad0wfax, is it a flute or a saxophone in the "Nontoonyt Resort" theme?  :wink:

[shad0wfax]

Hehehe... perhaps Fantom's sounds are not realistic enough to guess what is it? Detailed info: it's an alto sax, patch name "alto mp", progam number #43 of Bank Preset C. Number of voices: 1 (the Fantom can handle up to 8 voices per patch).

By the way, I just couldn't figure out exactly what instrument was used in the original MT-32 track, so I thought that a sax could fit well there.