SC-8820 vs. Yamaha FG 423S

[Tom]

Ever since I've been MIDI'ing, I've been searching for a steel acoustic guitar patch that actually sounded like a steel acoustic guitar.  MIDI does nylon string guitars pretty well, and the SC provides some good sounding electrics -- but a steel string acoustic seems to be a tough sound to get right.  The 'steel' usually has too much 'nylon' in it.

Recently, I discovered a SC-8820 patch, Steel Guitar 2, that comes close to sounding like a real steel string acoustic, though it still has far too much 'nylon' in it; but it's the closest I've heard from MIDI so far.  I have several acoustic guitars; one Epiphone (Gibson) nylon, and two Yamaha steels, plus a Gibson 12-string steel acoustic.  My Yamaha FG-423S is by far my favorite, and that's what I'm using for this 'comparison'.

I recorded it today, but my microphone isn't working very well -- or the sound cards aren't.  I have the guitar about 2 inches from the sound hole, and it's barely recording the sound.  The mic is also only recording in monophonic for some reason, and the recording is pretty rough (rough=bad).  But anyway, I thought I'd try to demonstrate the sounds as best I could.

Steve Dorian, may I borrow a few notes from you...

First, the SC's MIDI Steel Guitar 2:
http://www.QuestStudios.com/temp/SCGuitar.ogg

Note how "perfect" the EQ is on the SC.  This isn't a fair comparison because my "real" guitar recording isn't going through any equalization.  But nonetheless...

Now, my Yamaha acoustic playing "Live":
http://www.QuestStudios.com/temp/RealYamaha.wav

I kept it in WAV format because the recording is bad enough without further compressing it.  There's also LOTS of noise in my recording.  

I'm not sure what's going on with my mics and soundcards, but I have to get it fixed, pronto.  I've got a lot of recording yet to do in Al Emmo, and some of it requires recording live piano and guitars.

[Ari]

Well, the Yamaha version definitely sounds more real. (I guess it's because it IS real...)

The SC version is too perfect, as you already said.
I wonder if at some point in the future, MIDI will be able to emulate the imperfections of real instruments...

[Tom]

Put through proper equalization, the Yamaha sounds very rich and full.  A while back I was in a studio (a real recording studio), and my guitar recorded beautifully; I couldn't believe it was my guitar playing!  Top quality mics and sound boards will do that.  A crisp, yet full sound.  

The Audigy and Santa Cruz can do it too, but much depends on the microphone.  I like electric condenser mics, and mine bit the dust a few months ago.  I recorded the above with the cheapo mic that came with my old AWE32.

[Zemus]

The SC's guitar patch has the more stingy sound of a steel guitar when it's picked but the sustain has the "warm" dull sound of a nylon guitar... I don't really know how to explain it, but it doesn't sound very "steely" to me

[Tom]

That's a pretty good explanation.  Maybe I should have fingerpicked my Yamaha sample; the guitar pick adds a lot of 'ting'.  

[Zemus]

Not to hijack your thread, but since we're already on the topic of guitar samples...
I've been trying to find some good samples too. I recorded the Steve Dorian part using a couple of mine. The first's a steel guitar instrument I found on a sample CD I borrowed. Converted it to an SF2 file. Turned out pretty nicely, I think.
The second's a bit of an experiment. I found a nylon guitar instrument with samples of the fingers moving on the strings added so you can put the samples together with the samples of the strings sounding to make it sound more "real". I added the finger-samples with some random notes and played the Steve Dorian theme with it.

[Ari]

The first sample sounds a little dull to me. The second one is slightly better. I think it's the picking sound you added.

If the ED's Steel Guitar had it, I think it would sound a lot better and more real.

[Tom]

Hey, Ari...you've given me a great idea!  It would be easy to lay down a track of 'picking' sounds along with the guitar track.  I'll have to try it and see how it works.