Early Sierra Games and the CM Series

[Zemus]

The dropout may also be happening because you recorded the tune. When I recorded music from Sam & Max, the recorded version had note dropouts, yet the music played back fine when the game played it.
Privateer used XMI files for MIDI, like Kyrandia. There was a thread on this forum a while ago about the MIDI files from Kyrandia that were floating around on the net where the tempo was different than the music in the game.
Some months ago I ripped the XMI files from Privateer and used an old XMI2MID converter and it turned out the MIDI files I got had a slightly different running time. The same running time of the MIDIs I've found on the net. I ended up using Awave which produced MIDI files with the same running time as the original XMI files. It's also worth mentioning that I never noticed any dropouts.

[Tom]

That's a good point!  I don't know that recording, per se, would really matter, but you're right -- playing it back OUTSIDE the game can cause the dropout problem.  Some MIDI playback software used to cause this with the MT-32.  (I'm talking about playback utilities from the late 80's, early 90's.  I haven't kept up with that aspect of MIDI, so I don't know if that's still a problem.  I know Sequencer Plus Mark 2 (predecessor to SpG) used to have that problem, but I don't notice it with SpG; I do most of my MIDI listening using SpG.  There were a lot of old DOS and Win31 MIDI players that sucked, and either sent additional MIDI data to the MT-32 (causing it to overflow), or just didn't playback properly.  That could still be a problem, especially for the MT-32....which has very sensitive polyphony limits.

[Alistair]

Check out the song, "Gettin' some air." The laughter sound-effect is briefly used.

There may be more examples, but I've not done a thorough listen-through

'Gettin' Some Air', from memory, uses 'InHale', 'Lone Wolf', 'Heart' on the MT-32. Maybe the 'laughter' you mention is simply a patch playing wrongly on the CM?

Running short of polyphony on the MT-32 is a VERY common side effect of the module, and something many MT-32 game soundtracks share to some degree. That is to say....it's the norm.

'Closing Themes', LSL5..

That's a good point! I don't know that recording, per se, would really matter, but you're right -- playing it back OUTSIDE the game can cause the dropout problem. Some MIDI playback software used to cause this with the MT-32. (I'm talking about playback utilities from the late 80's, early 90's. I haven't kept up with that aspect of MIDI, so I don't know if that's still a problem. I know Sequencer Plus Mark 2 (predecessor to SpG) used to have that problem, but I don't notice it with SpG; I do most of my MIDI listening using SpG. There were a lot of old DOS and Win31 MIDI players that sucked, and either sent additional MIDI data to the MT-32 (causing it to overflow), or just didn't playback properly. That could still be a problem, especially for the MT-32....which has very sensitive polyphony limits.

Just to throw something in the mix- maybe it was this which caused some issues in Tom's QFG4 soundtrack? Because, the SC-55 OGG file for 'The Castle' (for example) has lots of polyphony dropouts, yet it only uses like 5 MIDI channels at once (with note levels way under what should make it dropout!). I don't think it drops out in the game when playing it either. Maybe a recording thing? I know that's not the point you were making exactly, Tom, but maybe your sequencers had something to do with it?

- Alistair

[Cloudschatze]

'Gettin' Some Air', from memory, uses 'InHale', 'Lone Wolf', 'Heart' on the MT-32. Maybe the 'laughter' you mention is simply a patch playing wrongly on the CM?

No, I recorded the output, and it plays the "Laughing" (Note #76) sound-effect on channel 10 immediately following the "Lone Wolf" howl. Whether this is intentional or not would be a question for the composer.



Also, I think Quest for Glory IV was composed using an SC-55mkII, due to the fact that, with it, I do not experience the polyphony dropouts of the SC-55-compatible CM-500. I have no absolute evidence to back this up, but as the development dates coincide with the release of the mkII (1993), I don't think it's without possibility. This could be cleared up with Aubrey Hodges...

[Tom]

Don't think we'll ever find out from Craig Safan, but from personal experience with composing percussion tracks on the MT-32, I've often hit keys that produced no sound...by mistake.  If the MIDI file were to be played back on most synths made after the MT-32, it's more than likely going to make a sound.  The MT-32's percussion selection on Channel 10 is pretty slim pickings, but later synths made better use of it.

There's other song files in LSL5 that exibit this, too?  Can you upload the ones in question.  I'd really like to look at them.  I don't recall a song entitled, "Gettin' Some Air".  Does it go by another name, too?  "Air For Your G-String" from LSL6 comes to mind...  

Hearing one or two wayward f/x on a CM-32L doesn't convince me that the LSL5 soundtrack was composed on it.  Now, if the f/x were used for a key part of the game, I might be willing to accept it.  Like gun shots accessed via channel 10 when a gun was being fired....

[Ari]

The dropout may also be happening because you recorded the tune. When I recorded music from Sam & Max, the recorded version had note dropouts, yet the music played back fine when the game played it.
Privateer used XMI files for MIDI, like Kyrandia. There was a thread on this forum a while ago about the MIDI files from Kyrandia that were floating around on the net where the tempo was different than the music in the game.
Some months ago I ripped the XMI files from Privateer and used an old XMI2MID converter and it turned out the MIDI files I got had a slightly different running time. The same running time of the MIDIs I've found on the net. I ended up using Awave which produced MIDI files with the same running time as the original XMI files. It's also worth mentioning that I never noticed any dropouts.

I'd love to have those rips, if it's not too much of a hassle.

Anyway, I've noticed that polyphony drops in Privateer MIDIs may change slightly from playback to playback on the same system with the same hardware and the same MIDI player program. Any ideas why this might happen?

[Tom]

Wayward partial eaters left in the MT-32 from previously sent MIDI data?  I've always found that the MT-32 is unpredictable in this area, especially when you're pushing the '22 to 24' simultaneous partial mark.

[Great Hierophant]

This is quite a conjecture to make. Hitting the polyphony limit is normal in a complex tune. Usually, the synthesizer will silence the oldest note prematurely to free up polyphony for the new one, and it might not be audible to the listener at all. The composer may not have heard the polyphony dropout or may simply have acknowledged that he hit the limits of the device he was using, and with a deadline fast approaching, there was little time left rework the tune. It could be this or any of a number of other scenarios. It's a stretch to conclude that just because a tune goes beyond the polyphony of the unit, it must have been composed for something bigger and better. Maybe in a perfect world.

Actually, a fun test to do if you own both an MT-32 and another MIDI device is to chain the two, with the MT-32 first, and then put the MT-32 in overflow mode (which can be done from the control panel). You'll probably be surprised how often the MT-32 runs out of polyphony and sends excess notes to the second device. Surely that does not mean that all those tunes were composed on something larger than the MT-32?

Hmm... If polyphony drops are a fairly common occurence, then perhaps the answer is to use two modules when the need arises.  If the modules are similar enough you should be able to get the full tune.  Can you set a SC-55 based GS module into this "overflow mode?"  Otherwise, perhaps you could still use an SC-88 with its 64 voice polyphony in SC-55 mode to experience more of the song.

[Alistair]

No, I recorded the output, and it plays the "Laughing" (Note #76) sound-effect on channel 10 immediately following the "Lone Wolf" howl. Whether this is intentional or not would be a question for the composer.

Doubtful. Only composed for the MT-32, according to Mark Seibert and his LSL5 MIDI's he sent me.

Also, I think Quest for Glory IV was composed using an SC-55mkII, due to the fact that, with it, I do not experience the polyphony dropouts of the SC-55-compatible CM-500. I have no absolute evidence to back this up, but as the development dates coincide with the release of the mkII (1993), I don't think it's without possibility. This could be cleared up with Aubrey Hodges...
 

I doubt this as well. Firstly, I don't believe Sierra would've bought a SC-55 mk II, and secondly, I doubt they'd let Hodges use it when gamers wouldn't have been able to hear things properly anyway.

I think the music was likely recorded before the Mk II was released anyway (think back to the QFG4 demo).

There's other song files in LSL5 that exibit this, too? Can you upload the ones in question. I'd really like to look at them. I don't recall a song entitled, "Gettin' Some Air". Does it go by another name, too? "Air For Your G-String" from LSL6 comes to mind...  

Gettin' Some Air is missing from your LSL5 CD soundtrack Tom (and your MIDI ones too), so you may never have heard it

Uh, an old MP3 version is up on my site, actually.
http://www.smc.sq7.org/lsl/lsl5gettingsomeairmt32.mp3

It plays when Patti 'sacrifices herself for her country' and takes Reverse Biaz (as opposed to getting him drunk, which is probably the way Tom went in the game, and as such never heard the tune..).

- Alistair

[Laust]

Hmm... If polyphony drops are a fairly common occurence, then perhaps the answer is to use two modules when the need arises.  If the modules are similar enough you should be able to get the full tune.  

It will certainly give you more tune, that's correct. There's one slight snag, however. You can't set Overflow mode via SysEx, so it would be applicable only to MT-32 tunes.

[Great Hierophant]

It will certainly give you more tune, that's correct. There's one slight snag, however. You can't set Overflow mode via SysEx, so it would be applicable only to MT-32 tunes.

But is it what the composer intended you to hear?  It is unlikely, but if he could hear it, why not we?  As far as I could tell, only the MT-32 among the Roland modules allows the user to set the overflow mode.  If you have an SC-55 or SC-55mkII all you can do is change the part priorities or buy a more advanced module.

[Cloudschatze]

Also, I think Quest for Glory IV was composed using an SC-55mkII, due to the fact that, with it, I do not experience the polyphony dropouts of the SC-55-compatible CM-500. I have no absolute evidence to back this up, but as the development dates coincide with the release of the mkII (1993), I don't think it's without possibility. This could be cleared up with Aubrey Hodges...
 

I doubt this as well. Firstly, I don't believe Sierra would've bought a SC-55 mk II, and secondly, I doubt they'd let Hodges use it when gamers wouldn't have been able to hear things properly anyway.

I think it's very likely that they would have used the SC-55mkII. By 1993, 28+ polyphony was pretty much standard for every General MIDI/wavetable device except for the SC-55. Most gamers would have had the necessary hardware to hear everything.

I'll record some audio samples...

[Alistair]

I think it's very likely that they would have used the SC-55mkII. By 1993, 28+ polyphony was pretty much standard for every General MIDI/wavetable device except for the SC-55. Most gamers would have had the necessary hardware to hear everything.

Sierra supported the *SC-55*. They gave legacy support for the MT-32 at that time. It's almost certain they would NOT have supported a module like the mk-II (as in, it's not relevant that everything else was 28 note by then). If Hodges composed for such note polyphony, it would likely have been either someone else doing the SC work (as in, someone else transcribed it, like Mark Seibert), or more likely, he just composed it that way

Sierra wanted people to buy their games, not buy the last minute up to date sound cards and be broke

It almost certainly was not the suggestion you're putting forward, Eric, where Sierra decided to compsoe using a mk-II. That's not to say the suggestion some SC-55 tracks needed more polyphony than it could give was false, mind.

It does raise possibilities I admit. But I can't imagine Ken Williams letting them buy and use a mk-II either. I guess we could find out

- Alistair