"Tand-Em" Tandy Emulator

[Cloudschatze]

Has anyone actually managed to get this to work... ever?

[Great Hierophant]

No, everybody uses DosBox these days.  Tand-Em is very scary, requiring you to reboot your computer.

[Cloudschatze]

I'm aware of the alternatives, and I'm sure that DosBox and NAGI are great... but I would at least like to determine why it doesn't work. I think that a 5.25" drive may be required. Ah, c'est la vie...

[NewRisingSUn]

No, I got it to work with a 3.5" drive. How exactly does it "not work" for you?

[Cloudschatze]

During the Tandy boot, while attempting to read from any disk, the drive light stays lit, and the boot-process never continues. This occurs even with the bootdisk created from the included image.

[NewRisingSUn]

Hmm, beats me. It always worked for me, once I got it to stop whining about memory managers and such. Oh well, as Great Hierophant (is that a reference to Serpent Isle, by the way? I LOVE Serpent Isle!) pointed out, we've gotten past that emulator.

[Great Hierophant]

Oh well, as Great Hierophant (is that a reference to Serpent Isle, by the way? I LOVE Serpent Isle!) pointed out, we've gotten past that emulator.

I'm just waiting for an emulator to conquer the IBM PC Jr.  I want to play the original King's Quest and all the cartridges (Activision + Sierra).  Also, I heard that there was a port of M.U.L.E. to the PC Jr.  If someone could dump that, I would be a happy camper.  

Yeah, I took inspiration from Serpent Isle for my handle because it is unique (no one else outside Druidic circles or the Ultima Dragons has ever used it.)

[NewRisingSUn]

Back in the 1990s, when there were no PC emulators, I wrote "DOS Wrappers" for several self-booting games --- if you know WHDLoad for the Amiga, you know what I mean.

I wrote one of these for the original PCjr version of King's Quest, which also emulates the PCjr's sound chip through the Sound Blaster.

Those DOS wrappers worked nicely back then, but of course with the advent of emulators, they have become obsolete, well, except PCjr ones.

If you want, download and try my KQ1 PCjr one:

(link removed)

I think I also have MineShaft DOS-wrapped somewhere... Interestingly enough, none of my DOS wrappers work under DosBox; they do work under MESS, however.

[Great Hierophant]

Very interesting.  That DOS Wrapper was able to play KQ1 in WinXP, but the sound stuttered.  As far as I can tell, the title screen is different, there is no joystick option, the character is "Sir Grahame" and some sound cues are different.

[NewRisingSUn]

but the sound stuttered.

Probably an XP problem. Remember, those were written way before Win95 even.

there is no joystick option

It's just not explicitly mentioned, but joystick control should work.

[Cloudschatze]

Thank-you for the responses, guys. I think that I am going to stick with the IIGS releases, and forego the Tandy versions.

I have a Serpent Isle story...

Back in '96, I was at a toy-liquidation outlet which offered a "buy one, get one of equal-or-lesser value free" sale. I'd chosen Freddy Pharkas, and some Marvel, "design a comic" software. I must have been having a brain-dead moment, because at the checkout counter, I was told that I could not receive the Marvel program as the freebie, as it was the more expensive of the two. Rather than simply purchase it, and get FPFP free, I returned it to the shelf and quickly looked for something else. I saw the "Complete Ultima VII" compilation, and having never played an Ultima title, figured I'd take a chance.

I never did play The Black Gate - it was too quick on a P166, and I knew nothing of slowdown utilities. Serpent Isle installed properly, but because the Soundscape VIVO card requires EMM386, I was without sound.

So I played it anyway, despite the absence of sounds/music... and it went on to become the greatest game I'd ever played.

[SirGraham]

Sir Grahame! Now that should've been my handle!!

I downloaded the KQ1PCjr wrapper and it indeed have stuttering sounds under WinXP, but I checked it also under Win98 and the sound stuttered there too... I guess it'll work under true DOS, but I don't want to take my old 486 from the closet right now to check. The sounds did seem to work correctly under MESS 0.100 though.
Incidentally, why does it say 1984 in the IBM screen? Wasn't it a 1983 release?

By the way, it's really weird that it doesn't work under DOSBox. Copying the files to a floppy and taking an IMG file out of this floppy so it can work under MESS was annoying. It should be noted that I got it working only under MESS's Tandy emulation, and not under the regular PC emulation; in the latter I got the message: "A real Tandy, or a VGA/MCGA for Tandy graphics emulation, is required."

I'm sure that DosBox and NAGI are great...

I didn't know that NAGI defaulted loading AGI games in Tandy mode until you said this and I checked. Is there a way to do a non-Tandy AGI emulation in NAGI by the way? Just curious.

[NewRisingSUn]

I think that I am going to stick with the IIGS releases, and forego the Tandy versions.

I've never found a IIgs emulator that was satisfactory. XGS32 can't get the sound buffering right, and the colors are sick; MESS crashes many games, and KEGS just confuses me.

I never did play The Black Gate - it was too quick on a P166, and I knew nothing of slowdown utilities.

I think Serpent Isle probably was a better choice for a first-time player anyway --- many people were completely lost in Black Gate's highly non-linear world.

So I played it anyway, despite the absence of sounds/music... and it went on to become the greatest game I'd ever played.

Serpent Isle has some thoughtfully arranged LA music; especially the conscious use of different reverb macros is something you don't see often in games.

Anyway, Serpent Isle was the first of many straws why I got to hate Electronic Arts. While it's true that a product is never truly 'finished', it was painfully obvious that Serpent Isle was shipped before they could finish they storyline. I downloaded the original design documents for Moonshade from some website, and it's a shame how much stuff got canceled.

Of course, the last straw was Ultima 9.

I downloaded the KQ1PCjr wrapper and it indeed have stuttering sounds under WinXP, but I checked it also under Win98 and the sound stuttered there too... I guess it'll work under true DOS, but I don't want to take my old 486 from the closet right now to check

Well, it uses a very small mixing buffer to reduce latency; maybe those Sound Blaster emulators on modern machines choke on this. It still works nicely under Win98SE with an ISA SB16.

Incidentally, why does it say 1984 in the IBM screen? Wasn't it a 1983 release?

According to Wikipedia, the IBM PCjr shipped in March 1984. More importantly, according to the U.S. Copyright Office, which I think should be regarded as the authoritative source, the game was released on May 10th 1984 (registration number TX-1-393-675), so I don't understand why people keep trotting out this nonsense about the game being from 1983.

By the way, it's really weird that it doesn't work under DOSBox

.

DosBox doesn't handle Int13 redirections well.

Copying the files to a floppy and taking an IMG file out of this floppy so it can work under MESS was annoying.

WinImage facilitates that task.

It should be noted that I got it working only under MESS's Tandy emulation, and not under the regular PC emulation; in the latter I got the message: "A real Tandy, or a VGA/MCGA for Tandy graphics emulation, is required."

Which PC system are you emulating under MESS? It should work with xtvga or some other vga system...

Is there a way to do a non-Tandy AGI emulation in NAGI by the way? Just curious.

There's an option called "single=" in the [snd] section of NAGI.INI. I would much rather see NAGI emulate the IIgs sound.

[Great Hierophant]

Ultima VII - The Black Gate has a great advantage in its non-linearity, but Ultima VII - The Serpent Isle has a stronger, more tightly constructed plot.  The whole package gives you the best of both worlds, something that cannot really be said for any other game in the series.  I bought a true Roland MT-32 compatible for this and other great games like it.  I could really use true MT-32 midi rips of these tunes.  (The Bard's Library are likely GM optimized.)  

According to Wikipedia, the IBM PCjr shipped in March 1984. More importantly, according to the U.S. Copyright Office, which I think should be regarded as the authoritative source, the game was released on May 10th 1984 (registration number TX-1-393-675), so I don't understand why people keep trotting out this nonsense about the game being from 1983.

I believe that King's Quest was probably finished around the official launch date of November 1, 1983, but since IBM distributed it for the PCJr., they would not have sold it without the system to run it on.  Of course, unless you were around at the time, you wouldn't have known about it.  

I've never found a IIgs emulator that was satisfactory. XGS32 can't get the sound buffering right, and the colors are sick; MESS crashes many games, and KEGS just confuses me.

If you don't like KEGS, and its not something I love wholeheartedly, try this site: http://www.virtualapple.com/  The King's Quest games are relatively easy to get working on KEGS with its menu.  Interplay's ports require System 6, which is a pain to install.

[Cloudschatze]

I've never found a IIgs emulator that was satisfactory. XGS32 can't get the sound buffering right, and the colors are sick; MESS crashes many games, and KEGS just confuses me.

I picked up an actual IIGS some time ago. Though it lacks the flexibility (and speed) that the emulators offer, I still prefer it. A really nice CF-based interface can be had for the Apple II computers, providing hard-drive space on-the-cheap. From a PC running CiderPress, disk images can be extracted or copied directly to the ejected drive/card. Extremely handy.

[Great Hierophant]

A really nice CF-based interface can be had for the Apple II computers, providing hard-drive space on-the-cheap. From a PC running CiderPress, disk images can be extracted or copied directly to the ejected drive/card. Extremely handy.

Try here for a device that isn't out of print:
http://www.gse-reactive.com/cre/all_prodcats.php

Also, you can find a recreation of a particular, widely desired music product for the Apple II computers.  

I didn't know Ciderpress could write to 800KB 3.5" Apple IIGS disks without something like a Catweasel drive controller.

[SirGraham]

DosBox doesn't handle Int13 redirections well.

Maybe the devs will fix it if you tell them about it. They seem to aspire to have the most accurate PC emulation, which is very commendable.

Which PC system are you emulating under MESS? It should work with xtvga or some other vga system...

Right, it worked under xtvga, but the message "Could not init Sound Blaster for Tandy PSG emulation. Hit any key to use PC speaker sound" appeared, and indeed, the sounds that MESS emulated seemed o be the PC speaker sounds of KQ1. I guess the best way to load it under MESS is with Tandy emulation (I used t1000hx).

I would much rather see NAGI emulate the IIgs sound.

Why is that? Are the Aplle IIgs sounds even better than Tandy's? And besides, the IIgs is a totally different computer, so you'd need different versions for the games, unlike Tandy, which is basically a PC and don't require specific versions (except KQ1 booter). Does NAGI take care of non-PC AGI versions too? Hmmm... there seems to be some Amiga support but I can't check it cause I have only PC versions.

If you don't like KEGS, and its not something I love wholeheartedly, try this site: http://www.virtualapple.com/  The King's Quest games are relatively easy to get working on KEGS with its menu.  Interplay's ports require System 6, which is a pain to install.

What's that? Some sort of an on-line emulator?! I didn't install the software the page asks me to, so I didn't use it, but I got the Apple IIgs version of KQ1 from there to see why NewRisingSun prefers it to Tandy. Unfortunately, under MESS, the sound was completely distorted and it ran slow.
Incidentally, seeing that this site is filled with Apple ROMs gave me the hope that it might have a copy of Cranston Manor without the cracking group's name instead of a title screen. But alas, they have the same copy that I have... Does anyone know where I can get a "clean" copy?

[HondaSiR]

Also, you can find a recreation of a particular, widely desired music product for the Apple II computers.

I can't really afford the $65.00 recreated Mockingboard. I use the AppleWin Apple IIe emulator...its free and so far it has played all of my downloaded Apple games with Mockingboard support. Of special interest Apple games to me are Skyfox, Ultima 3, 4 and 5 (these Apple Ultima games were the first to support music outside of the speaker...their PC equivalents didn't have MT-32 support yet).

[Great Hierophant]

I can't really afford the $65.00 recreated Mockingboard. I use the AppleWin Apple IIe emulator...its free and so far it has played all of my downloaded Apple games with Mockingboard support. Of special interest Apple games to me are Skyfox, Ultima 3, 4 and 5 (these Apple Ultima games were the first to support music outside of the speaker...their PC equivalents didn't have MT-32 support yet).

Could you afford $130 for two Mockingboards (Ultima V supports them)?  Why not tack on an extra $50 for a speech chip each?  I don't think that the MT-32 even existed when Ultima III or IV was released back in 1983 and 1985, respectively.  The Apple II version of Ultima V can utilize an MT-32 or other midi device with a Passport Midi card.

[HondaSiR]

Could you afford $130 for two Mockingboards (Ultima V supports them)?  Why not tack on an extra $50 for a speech chip each?  I don't think that the MT-32 even existed when Ultima III or IV was released back in 1983 and 1985, respectively.  The Apple II version of Ultima V can utilize an MT-32 or other midi device with a Passport Midi card.

The AppleWin emulator can emulate two mockingboards in Ultima V. But I haven't heard the emulator speak, I suppose the authors of the software can upgrade the program sometime down the road.

Would be interesting to hear Ultima V connected to an MT-32. I doubt if it had special sysex messages, probably just the stock instruments.