Which soundtrack would you like to be converted?

[shad0wfax]

As you may already know, it's my intention to make another conversion to my Fantom XR of a Sierra soundtrack. In order to determine which soundtrack will be converted, I'm placing a poll between the following 10  titles: Quest For Glory IV; Gabriel Knight: Sins of the Fathers; King's Quest V; King's Quest VI; Space Quest IV; Sapce Quest V; Betrayal at Krondor; Dagger of Amon Ra; Police Quest 1 VGA; and Codename: Iceman.

After the poll is finished, I'll convert the most voted soundtrack.

[Ari]

It's a shame you can't vote twice (although I probably could :wink:)

voted for SQ5

[HondaSiR]

I voted for Codename: Iceman...although I also want a conversion of GK1 real bad. Oh well...by the way, can non-members of Quest Studios vote too?

[Ari]

No, they cannot.

[Dustin]

I went with PQ1.

[Wodball]

Quest for Glory 4 for me, but GK1 is a VERRRRRY close second.

--Woody

[MusicallyInspired]

KQ5

[Alistair]

KQ6, SQ5 was my close second.

People don't seem to think very much about it, though; Shadowfax has already said he feels GM soundtracks are much easier for him as a game musician to convert, yet people keep pushing for MT-32 scores because they like the score, despite the fact that the conversion won't be as good (Iceman, for example).. I find it strange.

- Alistair

[HondaSiR]

That's the beauty of it Alistair. Converting an MT-32 track to an XR track is more challenging than a GM to GM conversion. It brings out the best in Shadowfax...how he goes about the task, how he chooses and defines his instruments on the XR.

[Alistair]

I disagree, I think in time it brings out the best; but being harsh I'd say in the short term it doesn't do us personally much good to have endless conversions, 40% of which are reasonable to listen to above the MT-32 score, 30% bad conversions and 30% equivalents of the MT-32 score.

Which is great if every year he updates the recordings to show his new standards (or fixes problems in the short term, etc).. however otherwise it doesn't do much good at all.

Mainly because Shadowfax doesn't 'learn' from converting MT-32-> XR. He's already admitted not enjoying it or being able to do it to the level he'd like; and has converted instruments wrongly (bass/brass octaves for example) without correcting it, often.

I'd also say GM scores (LSL6, for example) is not a 'GM to GM' conversion, whatever that means. It's more like.. GM to XR conversion, since I'm sure he's using more than just the XR's GM tones.
And I think it's much better suited for his conversions since no octaves need to be altered, or volumes, or benders. Doesn't mean it's 'not a challenge', just means he can do a better job. This idea that it brings out the best simply doesn't make sense.


All that said, it's slightly hypocritical of me- took me years to learn how to convert stuff, and I'm only just getting the hang of lots of techniques. Still, it was my willingness to do it for others that kept me going, whereas in Shadowfax I see more the desire to fulfil one's own ends and desires, which means he does it on his own terms (i.e. converts the way he wishes). I just don't feel it's the optimum way to do things, and it's kinda sad this sort of conversion gets more following than Tom's (or my) work on a personal note.

Still, I won't let that get in the way of people's enjoyment of the recordings, I just feel it's more a novelty than anything else.

- Alistair

[HondaSiR]

GM to XR is what I originally meant. Shadowfax can always take the easy way out, playing the converted GM MIDI track on his XR. But I don't think he's going to go by that route.

You're always entitled to speak your opinion Alistair. As for me, I'd like to see how Shadowfax renders the sound effects on the title theme. The ping and keystroke sounds I find rather intriguing and fun to listen to.

[shad0wfax]

When I say I'd prefer a GM soundtrack over a MT one, it's NOT for lazyness at all. The point is that a soundtrack written specifically for the MT-32 would take advantage of its characteristics, using lots of sound effects and custom patches that are very difficult to emulate on other synths, and, at least to a certain extent, this would be quite pointless (if a soundtrack has been written for a specific machine, why don't simply listen to it in that machine?). Of course, there are exceptions, such as LSL3 soundtrack, which use mainly "acoustic" patches.

GM soundtracks are different. Even when they were written with the Sound Canvas in mind, GM is a standard, and every synth that follows this standard should be able to reproduce it quite well, and better synths should play it better than older synths. And there's no single GM patch that hasn't got a better counterpart in Fantom's native mode.

Of course, I could simply play the GM tracks in the XR, but this WOULD NOT be a conversion at all. First of all, Fantom's GM map is not representative of its real sound quality (I myself think that Edirol's SD series have better GM maps). And besides that, a conversion (even from a GM score) is a hard work. It's not only selecting appropiate patches, it's also adjusting effect settings for each patch and track, adjusting voulme levels and dynamics, velocity settings, and even mofifying the original score to better adapt it to Fantom's features. For example, Fantom's drum kits do NOT follow GM's keymaps (although they are quite simmilar), so I have to manually adjust some percussion sounds.

Finally (but that's my personal opinion, after all), I don't agree with the "wrong octaves" criticism. Perhaps some tracks are played in different octaves than the original, but I think (at least this was my intention) that this way the results are better considering the characteristics of both the score and the patch used to play it. But it's a matter of taste.

[Alistair]

Well, most of that post was aimed at Honda and not me, I think, (and it's all stuff I know), so I'll skip ahead..

Finally (but that's my personal opinion, after all), I don't agree with the "wrong octaves" criticism. Perhaps some tracks are played in different octaves than the original, but I think (at least this was my intention) that this way the results are better considering the characteristics of both the score and the patch used to play it. But it's a matter of taste.

Simply not true. I don't see how playing instruments on an octave which is too high makes anything sound nice. Take the organs in the LSL1 wedding themes for example:

http://66.49.226.244/digital/lsl1cd/LSL1Track13.ogg

and

http://66.49.226.244/digital/lsl1cd/xr/LSL1(13).mp3
(Copy/paste this link, since it doesn't work for some reason)


Compare the XR conversion to the original. The organs *should* be an octave lower on the XR. However they're not ,and the result is disharmony. Or whatever the real word is.

- Alistair

[shad0wfax]

Simple explanation: for this theme, I used the GM version, and while the original theme used program 17, that is, a tonewheel organ ("full organ"), the conversion uses a "fluted" pipe organ, because it tries to get the sound of a real pipe organ (fluted) in a chapel. Pipe organs use a complex pipe system which results in complex overtoned harmonics (thats why it seems to play in an octave higher, especially when it's played in the "fluted" variant), but this is only a characteristic of the patch.

[Alistair]

Aha, you used the GM version. Well, Tom when he converted it back when, converted it badly (Organ 1 instead of Church Org 1 from memory), so that's why you've ended up astray. And regardless of what characteristics of the patch exist, it still sounds way too high and unrealistic, and wrong to me. Surely you're trying to match the MT-32 sound while improving realism?

- Alistair

[shad0wfax]

Well, Tom when he converted it back when, converted it badly (Organ 1 instead of Church Org 1 from memory)

Don't be hard on Tom, the standard Pipe Organ tone and its fluted variation have different tonal characteristics (something simmilar occurs with the standard trumpet and the muted trumped), and in fact, organ 1 (preset 17) sounds closer to the original MT-32 version than the Pipe organ patch (preset 20).

And in the other hand, I sincerely don't think that the flute organ patch I used plays too high (you can for instance listen to some of J.S. Bach's organ pieces and you'll realize what are their registers), and it's certainly not unrealistic (it's a very realistic flute organ patch).

[Alistair]

Actually, you're probably right about Tom's conversion. A churchy organ might sound too cathedralish.

However the organ you used sounds simply unrealistic, to me anyway. ANd that's because of its' pitch. I'm no organ expert, I'm just going on the original MT-32's nice calliope patch.

- Alistair

[shad0wfax]

OK, so what you actually are saying is that you don't like the organ patch I used. That's OK. But it's not unrealistic. Listen to a real fluted pipe organ and compare.

[Alistair]

Well, I "don't like" it because it's an octave higher than the MT-32 equivalent in the original score, and doesn't sound like pressed keys (as the MT-32's calliope does), it sounds more like a organ flute, as you say.

Anyways. We've done this to death now. And I have to pack!

Oh yes. I should also point out that you've done some amazing conversions, like 'Ivana Skates' from LSL5. Lovely. (Incidentally, that Overdrive Guitar on the XR rocks.)

- Alistair

[Ari]

There seems to be a tie between QFG4 and KQ6 so far. We might have to do a second poll to determine which one to choose.