KING'S QUEST VI - FANTON XR VERSION

[Alistair]

What the heck? That's weird.

Then again, KQ6GM was one of the MIDI scores of Tom's I never listened to.

- Alistair

[Ari]

Why the heck not?  :wink:

[Alistair]

IIRC, it was because it was really long, and my SC-55 was always busted. Then Tom released his soundtrack CD pretty early for KQ6, so I never had any reason to go back and listen after that, since it was SC-55 w/ MT-32 enhancements..

I really like what Shadowfax did with 'Lord'. I'll try and post which tracks I don't like so much/like plenty sometime, but I'm still kinda busy.

- Alistair

[Ari]

Shad0wfax, any chance you'll correct the problems with "Stopping the Wedding" track? I really like it overall - it's a very powerful theme under the Fantom's superior sounds, and only that part I mentioned kind of ruins it.

Also, in the "Closing Scenes" theme, the volume of the strings and some of the other instruments is extremely low, and can hardly be heard.

I'm sorry to bug you about it so much, I just like this soundtrack so much.

[shad0wfax]

Ari, I honestly don't know what's the problem with "stopping the wedding" track. I've listened it carefully and I've examined the midi track closely and it's all OK. There are two brass sounds: trumpets (panned slightly to the right) and frech horns (panned slightly to the left), during all the track. Maybe it's an effect from the horn patch itself. It's a sound of "fizz horns", that is, when french horns are played fortissimo.

Regarding the closing scenes track, all volume levels are right, so the problem is likely to be velocity settings. As I've pointed out some times, the Fantom is very sensitive to velocity changes, to achieve a great dynamic range (from pianissimo to fortissimo), both in volume and in tonal properties. That's why some tracks, designed and composed in other synths with less dynamic capabilities, sometimes don't have "even volumes" (some parts are played very softly and others louder). The only way to fix this would be to rework the entire track by hand

[Alistair]

Sounds pretty easy to me; just raise the velocities of the french horn part by 10, or raise the volume by 10, or simply not play select a part where they're played fortissimo

- Alistair

[Tom]

Sounds pretty easy to me; just raise the velocities of the french horn part by 10, or raise the volume by 10

Doing that, you're simply raising the output level and not correcting the problem of dynamic differences between the two playback synths.  Shad0fax is right in that it's something that would have to be done, manually, to achieve the desired output.  

Sequencer Plus Gold has a "relative velocity" transform that may work to some extent, but I doubt it would produce the same effect as you'll get by  manually adjusting the velocities to properly maintain dynamics.

[Ari]

Ari, I honestly don't know what's the problem with "stopping the wedding" track. I've listened it carefully and I've examined the midi track closely and it's all OK. There are two brass sounds: trumpets (panned slightly to the right) and frech horns (panned slightly to the left), during all the track. Maybe it's an effect from the horn patch itself. It's a sound of "fizz horns", that is, when french horns are played fortissimo.

Do you mean you don't know what I'm talking about, or you don't know what the problem is? The fr. Horns sound awesome to my ears. It's the trumpets that don't live long enough at some points. I don't think it should be too much of a problem correcting this. Takes a little playing around, though, I would say.
I've done such things with KQ4's Finale, for example, when I converted it to GS and the strings did the same thing. I'm willing to help if you really want to.

Regarding the closing scenes track, all volume levels are right, so the problem is likely to be velocity settings. As I've pointed out some times, the Fantom is very sensitive to velocity changes, to achieve a great dynamic range (from pianissimo to fortissimo), both in volume and in tonal properties. That's why some tracks, designed and composed in other synths with less dynamic capabilities, sometimes don't have "even volumes" (some parts are played very softly and others louder). The only way to fix this would be to rework the entire track by hand

Yes it is quite tedious to do it that way, so I understand why you're reluctant. It's a shame, since it's one of my favorites. Oh well...

[Alistair]

Doing that, you're simply raising the output level and not correcting the problem of dynamic differences between the two playback synths. Shad0fax is right in that it's something that would have to be done, manually, to achieve the desired output.

I agree, and know that from experience, but some of the things Ari said was that instruments are quiet. You don't need to rework every velocity to bring up instrument volume, as you well know.

Besides, it's not like he manually tweaked velocities for every KQ6 piece (he probably did it for hardly any of them and I don't blame him), so why make an exception, why not do it on-the-fly.

It's not like you or I rework every track from MT-32->ED.

- Alistair

[shad0wfax]

Ari said:

Do you mean you don't know what I'm talking about, or you don't know what the problem is?

Of course, what I mean is that I don't know what the problem is. After your explanation, if, as it seems, the problem is that the trumpets don't last enough, I'm afraid it's a problem of velocities again, but this one will be easy to fix, I think.

Alistair said:

Besides, it's not like he manually tweaked velocities for every KQ6 piece (he probably did it for hardly any of them and I don't blame him), so why make an exception, why not do it on-the-fly.

Luckily, I didn't have to manually tweak velocities for each track, but I had to adapt every now and then some volume, expression and velocity settings in a lot of themes (not in each individual midi channel, lucklily, but only in one or in some). The problem is, as in strings in this track, when tracks are long and with many volume and velocity changes. Then you have to do a hard rework. You who make recordings and conversions already know that this work is usually harder than it seems. For instance, in many tracks that have percussion, I had to "split" the drum track in several one to achieve good results, in order to select the most suitable sounds: one track for the orchestral snare drum, one track for orchestral cymbal, one track for triangle, one for reverse cymbal, and one track for timpani, for example. There were no single drumkit which had the most suitable sounds at a time. And then, I had to adapt volume, effects, etc. for each track.

[Alistair]

Yep, I know all about it. I remember trying to convert that exact piece of music a while ago (2003, now!).

Thankfully the 8820/50 percussion sets closely resemble (or at least complement) the MT-32's/SC-55's, so it's easy to convert.

- Alistair