Should I get Yamaha MU100?

[Alistair]

But I don't understand the comment about the French horn. I love the SW60XG's French horn 2 sound much better than the SC-55's. It has nice depth.

I would say Motumiri is referring to the General MIDI French Horn only.

It'll be nice to have 1500 more instruments <evil grin>

- Alistair

[shad0wfax]

Of course, when people get hi-end synths they aren't (usually) looking for good GM patches, but for THE REST of patches. It's even quite usual that the the GM part of hi-end synths are not quite good (or not as good as the rest of patches). Take, for example, my XV-2020. It's GM-2 compatible, but to be honest, I don't find the GM part to be good (it's probably better than most other GM-synths, but still it's not the best part of the synth). You can find, by far, much better patches (even for the same instruments) in the rest of non-GM presets.

[moturimi1]

But I don't understand the comment about the French horn. I love the SW60XG's French horn 2 sound much better than the SC-55's. It has nice depth.

Alistair is right. I was talking about the French Horn1. I know that the French horn2 is much better.
I just asked myself why Yamaha didn't change the terrible French Horn1 with the new modules. Instead they changed the already good sounding instruments like guitars, organs and the bass section.


TOM:
Did you get the recorded Mp3 from me?? What do you say, does it sound different?

[Tom]

Yes, thanks...I got it.  I'm pretty sure the same MIDI file wasn't used in the recordings, though.  (I have so many different files for that same LSL3 song that it's hard to tell.)  At the least, the song isn't being played back correctly.   Was the 8850 playing in SC-55 mode?  The sounds are just too drastically different, and I think a couple of the variation banks are being incorrectly accessed.  Even between the old SC-55 and the newer SC-8820, the differences aren't as drastic as the recording would indicate between the 8820 and 8850.  They should be nearly the same.

[moturimi1]

Yes, thanks...I got it.  I'm pretty sure the same MIDI file wasn't used in the recordings, though.  (I have so many different files for that same LSL3 song that it's hard to tell.)

The LSL3GM11.mid has been used for the recordings (at least for the SC55), cause I downloaded it from http://queststudios.com/quest/compare2001.html (on the right of the SC-55.mp3 file)

Was the 8850 playing in SC-55 mode? The sounds are just too drastically different, and I think a couple of the variation banks are being incorrectly accessed.

No, I used the Original SC-8850 soundmap. And there are no variation banks used in this GM file! I recorded the file with the SC-55 and SC-88pro map too and compared it with your recordings. Each sounds (nearly) identical to your recordings of these differnt modules. Only the trombone is different, I think. I compared your SC-8820 file with the SC-88pro map of the SC-8850, cause it uses nearly all sounds of the SC-88pro map (except the drums).

At the least, the song isn't being played back correctly.

Why do you think so? Because of the Trombone sounds (at about 00:12 in this file)? The Trombone plays correctly. It's just different from the SC-8820 cause it uses different samples.

Even between the old SC-55 and the newer SC-8820, the differences aren't as drastic as the recording would indicate between the 8820 and 8850.  They should be nearly the same.

No, cause they use different instrument samples. All instruments in this file (except Xylophone and Choir Aahs) are different in both modules. So 7 of 9 instruments use different samples. No wonder it sounds different.

Alistair:
Can you verify this?

[Tom]

The LSL3GM11.mid has been used for the recordings (at least for the SC55), cause I downloaded it from http://queststudios.com/quest/compare2001.html (on the right of the SC-55.mp3 file)

No, that's not what I meant.  I don't know if THAT file is the same file I used for the comparisons, or have since overwritten it.  My hard drives, and the server for that matter, have gone through a lot of changes since that page was created and since doing those comparisons.  I was looking through my old hard drive backups a few days ago and saw many LSL3 comparison files; I don't know which is which any more.  I'd have to start over.

If indeed, what you sent me was accurate, it's a shame that these two sound modules would be so different in sound.  It sure isn't how Roland promoted them.  It also means I'll have to redesign my "Roland ED" page, since they are definitely NOT compatible modules.

[moturimi1]

If indeed, what you sent me was accurate, it's a shame that these two sound modules would be so different in sound.  It sure isn't how Roland promoted them.  It also means I'll have to redesign my "Roland ED" page, since they are definitely NOT compatible modules.

They are only identical if they use the same sampled instruments (and there are many!!!)
But there are also many instruments that are completely different. e.g. Piano1, Piano2, Honky Tonk, Harpsichord, Tubular Bell, Santur, Harmonica (4voices vs. 1voice), Accoustic Bass, Strings, Slow Strings and some sounds of the Standard Drum set1.
Some are a bit different. e.g. Music Box, Trumpet, Trombone, Tuba, Clarinet, Sitar.
And these are only the GM instruments!!!! There are many more GS instruments.

By the way what do you think of the LSL3 mp3 file. Do you once again don't like the SC8850???

[Alistair]

I'm confused. Fairly.

Firstly, I don't know if Tom's got the right idea.. and I'm not fully sure what he's saying about the 8820/50.

I have no idea what Motimuri's point is..

- Alistair

[moturimi1]

I'm confused. Fairly.

Firstly, I don't know if Tom's got the right idea.. and I'm not fully sure what he's saying about the 8820/50.

I have no idea what Motimuri's point is..

- Alistair

I recorded the LSL3GM11.mid file from the Sound Card comparison page with the SC-8850. I wanted TOM to make it availible on the Comparison page, so you can hear how differnt the two ED modules ca be.

Tom isn't sure if he used the LSL3GM11.mid file for the SC-8820 MP3 file on the comparison page. I mailed him my recorded file and he was surprised how diffrent the two files sound. So he thinks he used a different LSL3 file for recording the SC-8820 file, but he still needs to verify that.

Alistair:
Now I want you to listen to the SC-8820 mp3 file and compare it with the Midi file you can download there on your SC-8850.
By the way does your SC-8850 have a green, blue or yellow point near the Serial number on the backside? Would be good to know. I still couldn't find out what the differences within these marked modules are. I tried to translate a japanese page where you could find out, but I don't understand the translated text:

"As for the early lot pronunciation delay occurrence (at Roland gratuitousness repair) collecting with the trouble of CPU, in the lot which was corrected the seal of blue color is pasted in stock amount up to the following lot where the seal of yellow green color is pasted on the rear In addition, as for this which has also the bug which cannot fumble the pitch of the user drum with NRPN with the rise data which is open with Roland it can cancel the seal of yellow it is pasted in the lot or the lot of stock amount which is collected Nothing lot which clears all troubles is pasted, (the last lot)"

Can someone help me out?
My SC-8850 doesn't have a mark on the backside, so what does that mean??

[Tom]

"As for the early lot pronunciation delay occurrence (at Roland gratuitousness repair) collecting with the trouble of CPU, in the lot which was corrected the seal of blue color is pasted in stock amount up to the following lot where the seal of yellow green color is pasted on the rear In addition, as for this which has also the bug which cannot fumble the pitch of the user drum with NRPN with the rise data which is open with Roland it can cancel the seal of yellow it is pasted in the lot or the lot of stock amount which is collected Nothing lot which clears all troubles is pasted, (the last lot)"

Say, what?

Reminds me of George Bush speaking....  And people wonder why this administration is so screwed up.  

[moturimi1]

"As for the early lot pronunciation delay occurrence (at Roland gratuitousness repair) collecting with the trouble of CPU, in the lot which was corrected the seal of blue color is pasted in stock amount up to the following lot where the seal of yellow green color is pasted on the rear In addition, as for this which has also the bug which cannot fumble the pitch of the user drum with NRPN with the rise data which is open with Roland it can cancel the seal of yellow it is pasted in the lot or the lot of stock amount which is collected Nothing lot which clears all troubles is pasted, (the last lot)"

Say, what?

Reminds me of George Bush speaking....  And people wonder why this administration is so screwed up.  

That's how Babel Fish translated the text!!!!

[Alistair]

*Alistair points out that that's why Babel Fish is crap..*

Actually, I can kinda understand what it says. It tells me that the labels don't mean much, as well..

Except maybe that 8850's with no label have no bug? Who knows.

- Alistair

[Alistair]

Had a listen to it (SierraLand GM), though my RCA's were plugged in backwards, so it wasn't the best comparison..
 
I'll record an OGG later this week. Obviously the piano is going to be very different, but otherwise some instruments sound very similar (identical), and maybe (I'm not sure) others don't..

- Alistair

[moturimi1]

Compare the Trombone and the Clarinet.