I finally got a new toy: Korg X5DR

[Maxime]

Hi,

Just a post to say that I got a Korg X5DR... as I said in this thread, I was first looking for an inexpensive module, I was very close to get a Yamaha MU50 on eBay, but I lost the auction...

And, actually, it wasn't that bad Why? Because I then started to look for another similar-priced module, and found the Korg 05R/W to fit in my
budget... I contacted several people who were selling one, but did not get quite positive or motivated answers... apart from one guy who told me it was a chance to have lost the Yamaha auction, as the MU50 is - according to him - "inexpressive" :lol:

As I did not get any clear sale offer for the 05R/W, but was tempted to get a Korg, I looked for the X5DR... okay, it's more expensive, actually twice the price of the 05R/W... but with twice polyphony and 2 MB of additional sounds! And I finally found a seller who came directly at home to leave me his Korg X5DR in excellent working condition for 130 € (~ $167), the best price I found!

And whoaaaa... it sounds damn good :twisted:!

The strings are quite nice, but it doesn't seem to be quite orchestral-friendly (does not sound as good as my own SoundFont for some game MIDIs like Kyrandia, Day of The Tentacle or Monkey Island)...

However, I tried it with some pop/rock MIDIs (Van Halen's "Jump" or Europe's "Final CountDown")... Wow! The guitars are nice, very nice, the leads are punchy, the basses are deep... and the drumkits are awesome... especially the Power kit, which sounds exactly like the Roland HyperCanvas VSTi IIRC! Awesome! I love this drumkit, and I thought it was a Roland-exclusive one... but it's not!

Now, I'm wondering if using the MIDI-Thru to connect it simultaneously my MT-32 would be a good idea... I did not have any additional MIDI cables so I connected the X5DR to the MIDI-In that I was using for my MT-32... temporarily I hope, as I currently can't use both MT-32 and X5DR without swapping the cable.

I would need some additional info about the MIDI-Thru connection... my "only" MIDI interface being my USB MIDI keyboard which has a MIDI-Out port, I thought I could only connect one synth to it (my keyboard has a Windows driver to send MIDI data to its Out port) but someone told me that I could connect more than one synth by using the MIDI-Thru ports... how does it work?

If I connect, for example, the X5DR to my MIDI keyboard, and the MT-32 to the MIDI-Thru of the X5DR, how will they react if I play some notes on my MIDI keyboard? Will they both answer and play notes at the same time, or one of the two synth, or does it depends of the X5DR capabilities?

I still have to read the manual of the X5DR, but I wanted to share my one-hour experience with it! It looks and sounds damn nice! If you want some MP3 or OGG recordings of MIDI files, don't hesitate to ask for them...

Maxime

[Maxime]

It seems that you can listen to the quite impressive first demo song available on the Korg X5DR in MP3 format here: http://www.karma-lab.com/mg/ag-pd.html. It's a damn nice track, with a lot of sounds and musical genres. Stephen Kay has done an awesome job!

For the second demo, go to Korgy Park's Buyers Guide (http://www.blosphere.net/~janne/KorgX5BuyersGuide.html) and look for the "We've Got Dreams" MP3, demo, by Korg. Less impressive and shorter than the first one, but quite worth listening as well.

[shad0wfax]

Congrats, Maxime, the X5DR is a great synth! I know because the NS5R has X5DR's patches, too.

I don't know why, but Korg's AI2 synths and modules are underrated and can be get at very low prices (cheaper than Yamahas and Rolands). They are full of good, rich and expressive sounds, perhaps not as realistic as Roland's, and the effect units aren't as flexible as Yamaha's, but some sounds are simply fantastic and the other brands (at the same price level) simply cannot touch them. It's more a composer's module though, as those Korgs are not much "game-friendly" (just because games were composed for Rolands and Yamahas, though).

[Maxime]

Congrats, Maxime, the X5DR is a great synth! I know because the NS5R has X5DR's patches, too.

I was told that the NS5R was better, but it would have cost 70 € (~ $90) more to have one instead of my X5DR... and, if I was willing to pay nearly 200 € for a synth, I would have looked for the NX5R (NS5R + Yamaha XG combo, as far as I know) instead

I don't know why, but Korg's AI2 synths and modules are underrated and can be get at very low prices (cheaper than Yamahas and Rolands).

And it rocks! I got mine for a very nice price, and in perfect condition!

Actually, I even saw one priced at 100 € ($128) on eBay with a Buy it Now! option, but I did not know if it would be a so good bargain, so I did not buy it from there, and two or three days after, the eBay seller removed the Buy it Now! option, leaving only the usual bidding options.

But, after thinking about it, I think I've made the good choice. At $128, I would have bought a module in unknown condition (the description did not have a lot of information), and without manual.

While, for less than $40 more ($166) I got mine directly from a French guy, at a sure and fixed price (ie. unlike biddings) who came with it at home, so I was able to test it and see if it was okay. And, moreover, it came in excellent condition (not even a little scratch... nothing!) and with its French manual! So, after the difficulties I had to get a working MT-32, I was very happy !

They are full of good, rich and expressive sounds, perhaps not as realistic as Roland's, and the effect units aren't as flexible as Yamaha's, but some sounds are simply fantastic and the other brands (at the same price level) simply cannot touch them.

Some sounds are awesome, especially the "Combi"s (up to 4 sounds mixed altogether IIRC): this little box has some marvelous guitar and mid-synthy/mid-realistic piano sounds, especially!

It's more a composer's module though, as those Korgs are not much "game-friendly" (just because games were composed for Rolands and Yamahas, though).

Yep, I actually think the same way.

I tried it on several GM MIDIs and, while it obviously sounds better than Microsoft's GM.DLS or Yamaha's S-YXG softsynth, the General MIDI rendering is quite neutral and sometimes lacks the "punchy" side that my own SoundFont bank has (but my SF bank is sometimes way too "punchy" :lol:), especially for game music.

But some pop/rock MIDIs I have sound really awesome with this synth (a mix of Poly Synth/Synth Brasses/Electric Guitars gives excellent results  :twisted:), and even more if you consider that it is more than 10 years old and that it has "only" 8 MB of ROM samples

I'm fully satisfied with my new expander
I'm waiting to find a use for some of its presets on my own music tracks; its Power snare is already on my next game music track :twisted:

[Alistair]

Only problem for me with the X5DR is that for the price, it has very few patches, whereas the NX5R has a LOT more patches, over 1,000 more, and goes for roughly the same price on Ebay. Can you post a Sierra recording? People don't do enough of those.

- Alistair

[Maxime]

Only problem for me with the X5DR is that for the price, it has very few patches, whereas the NX5R has a LOT more patches, over 1,000 more, and goes for roughly the same price on Ebay.

Yes, but eBay is a very random source to buy used items, IMO
More than on any other website or store, you can get great items for an awesome price, and items which do not correspond to the given description, and which are, hence, not so money-saving

But if you can find an NX5R on eBay for around $170 (price I paid for my X5DR, without considering that the seller came himself to deliver it), you can give the link on the forum, I guess that many people could be interested

Can you post a Sierra recording? People don't do enough of those.

Of course

I've uploaded on my web server an OGG recording from Heart of China, recorded using one of the GM MIDI files which can be found on this website.

The recording has been done with the "Hall" reverb setting of the X5DR (I don't know this module enough currently, to know what are the default effect settings). I've recorded it from the line input of my SB Live!, without any EAX effect on this side.

[shad0wfax]

Some sounds are awesome, especially the "Combi"s (up to 4 sounds mixed altogether IIRC):

In fact, Korg's combinations can contain up to 8 voices and not 4 That's twice Yamaha MU's "performances".

Only problem for me with the X5DR is that for the price, it has very few patches, whereas the NX5R has a LOT more patches, over 1,000 more, and goes for roughly the same price on Ebay.

In fact, most of those patches are not very interesting, becuse there are 128 native GM patches, 128 05R/W-compatible GM patches, SC-88 GS patches and MU-80 XG patches. The only real advantage of the NS5R in terms of original Korg sounds is 128 more patches and 128 more combis (384 patches and 384 combis in total). The NS5R has 12Mb of rom samples in total, only 4 more than the X5DR. In terms of polyphony and effects both are the same. One advantage of the NS5R is the waveblaster connector, though.

And last but not least, Korg's AI2 modules are "real" synths, like the MT-32, because you can build sounds from scratch (from waveform level), and you're not "tied" to preset patches. Both Roland sound canvases and Yamaha's MU series only let you tweak some parameters, whereas the Korg lets to touch just every single parameter of the patch/combi.[/b]

[Alistair]

Not realy sure what you mean, Shadowfax. Can you explain again? (Sorry, it might be just me today.)

- Alistair

[shad0wfax]

Yes, Alistair, but to explain what? NS5R and X5DR's native patches or synthesis method? If it's the first one, I only mean that most of those 1000+ patches of the NS5R are in fact GM/GS/XG soundmaps, and there are "only" 384 original patches and 384 orignal combinations (those include 05R/W and X5DR's patches and combis, by the way, so what you can find in a NS5R that you cannot find in a X5DR, in terms of original sounds, are 128 new patches and 128 new combis).

Regarding the second topic, what I mean is that in SC's and MU's editing capabilities are somewhat limited, because you have to take an existing patch as a basis and then you can tweak some parameters (for example the ADSR envelope, the filter, or the vibrato). In a "real" synthesizer you can tweak every parameter of the patch and even build a new one from scratch (just like in the MT-32). The basis of the sound is the waveform/oscillator and  not a pre-existing patch (although you can also simply tweak some parameters of an already existing patch).

[Alistair]

OK, right. That makes sense to me now, and yeah, both paragraphs.

Surely, if the NS5R even has ripoff patches from Roland modules ,they'll still be Korg-like? As in, "Synth Brass 1" on a sound module of the time, e.g. Roland SC-88, or MU-80, won't be the same sounding as the NS5R's SC GS or Xg map.

But, it's hard to say without comparisons, I guess. Thanks for the link, Maxime, will get back to you once I get time to hear it.

- Alistair

[jbltecnicspro]

Maxime, did you tweak this MIDI at all or did you record it straight through?  This Korg is a tough call - some of the stuff sounds really great!  I especially love the horns and the Orchestra Hit sounds cool too!  I LOVE that harp - I have to have it right now!  Yet some stuff sounds rather odd, like the ethnic flute - maybe it's just the MIDI.

Experts (previous owners), I need some help here.  I'm on the market for a cheap MIDI module to do some work and I've narrowed it down to the Roland SC-D70 and the Korg AI2 modules, and I'm stuck as to which one I should get.  Any help would be appreciated.  Thanks

[Alistair]

SCD-70 = not cheap

AI2 modules = cheap

- Alistair

[jbltecnicspro]

Actually, a quick Ebay search proves otherwise...

[Maxime]

Maxime, did you tweak this MIDI at all or did you record it straight through?  This Korg is a tough call - some of the stuff sounds really great!  I especially love the horns and the Orchestra Hit sounds cool too!  I LOVE that harp - I have to have it right now!  Yet some stuff sounds rather odd, like the ethnic flute - maybe it's just the MIDI.

I recorded the OGG track directly by sending the MIDI file found on this website, to the X5DR. The only effect being applied was the internal "Hall" effect from the unit (as I said, I did not really know how to disable it before playing MIDI data), I did not apply any other setting (not even an EAX effect on the Line In from my SB Live!).

Actually, I find that the X5DR sounds far much better while it's not in GM mode It seems that the GM presets can't be modified or remapped - and it's actually quite disappointing, because this unit can actually produce much better sounds - the GM presets being lighter to save polyphony, I guess.

But maybe I'm wrong, there's maybe a way to remap GM presets (like on the MT-32: the factory sounds can't be changed, but you can map each program to another preset, either built-in or from the memory area - from what I know about the X5DR, it can't be done that way). But, if it's actually possible, I still have to find it

Anyway, the GM presets are still quite good and well-chosen (a nice balance between polyphony and quality), even more if you consider that it's a 1995 module with only 8 MB of ROM samples After all, it appears logical that my 2003-2006 SoundFont bank sounds better, as it carries nearly 125 MB of sounds :lol:

[Alistair]

Hall is the default reverb on all modules.

Actually, a quick Ebay search proves otherwise

How? My ended items Ebay search shows (US dollars):

Roland SC-D70 Sound Canvas GS and General Midi2  $325.00

ROLAND SC-D70 MIDI SOUND CANVAS-USB W/AUDIO OUT/NEW
GENERAL MIDI/MIDI-2/MIDI-GS SUPER SOUNDS Low Reserve $376.56
 
Roland Sc-d70 Digital Sound Canvas  $368.52

Roland "Sound Canvas Digital" SC-D70; USB/MIDI/AUDIO $392.98


Versus:


 Korg NX5R Workstation AI2 Synthesis Module - in OVP $226.18

 Korg 05R/W AI2 Synthesis Sound Module $190.73
 


So. What proves otherwise? You seem good at talking off the top of your head, man.

- Alistair

[jbltecnicspro]

First of all, what the hell is your problem?  Do you think that I'd just talk off of the top of my head without proof?  Are you looking at Ebay USA or Ebay Australia?  Here's the $200 SC-D70...

http://cgi.ebay.com/Roland-Edirol-SC-D70-Pro-Sound-Canvas-USB-Midi-Audio_W0QQitemZ7420406268QQcategoryZ64386QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

When I posted my findings, at the time the only high-end Korg AI2 cost over $200 on Ebay USA.  I'm not lying here, but maybe another one entered the market that's cheaper...

$325 for the SC-D70... that sounds a lot like the SC-8850 auction - you sure you're not confusing the two?

[Alistair]

"What the hell is my problem"? Easy, boy.

I was annoyed because you disagreed with me 'off the top of your head', plus you were actually wrong. I did a search for Roland SC-D70's in completed listings and Korg AI2 on Ebay.com, using all countries/regions, and those were the results.


Sounds like you're the confused one.

- Alistair

[Maxime]

Try not to ruin my topic, guys :lol:

I would just say that here, in France, prices are a lot cheaper than Alistair's ones :lol:

Korg 05R/W modules can usually be found around 75 € ($95), X5DR's around 150 € ($190) and NS5R's/NX5R's around 200 € ($250), but they are maybe more expensive on auction websites, where the prices can raise much more than any other "classified ads" website.

And I actually think that it's more logical to find USB Roland Sound Canvas modules to be more expensive than older Korg AI2 modules, as they are... older. I don't know if Korg still produces new "AI2"-brand modules, jbltechnicspro, which high-end module did you find at eBay? A more recent model comparable to the age of the mentioned Sound Canvas?

Prices could vary according to the popularity of the instrument (eg. Yamaha DX7, Roland TR-808, although being quite old, are still sold quite expensive nowadays IMO) but as shad0wfax pointed out, Korg AI2 modules are cheaper than some other modules, not because of a lack of quality, but a lack of popularity.

[Alistair]

I see most Korg NS5R/NX5R's go for about 200 US dolalrs, which is also in disagreement with Maxime's price. But ah well.

I can't wait to get one. Just don't have any money at the moment!!

- Alistair

[jbltecnicspro]

I only disagreed with you because I was looking at them earlier on Ebay - didn't mean to curse, but the Korg models I was looking at weren't cheaper than that SC-D70... and since it's closed there's no point in arguing about it now.  I didn't mean any disrespect, but I wasn't disagreeing off the top of my head there - I wrote that post with two Ebay windows running in the background.  All I could find was some Japanense trader who had what I wanted but for $250 + $40 (I think) shipping...  

My apologies, I should have been more specific to what model I was looking at with Korg - I was looking at the N5SR (or is it NS5R) - the one shadowfax posted a sample of.  But next time don't shoot me down because I disagree with you - it's not personal at all:  I was just pointing out that you overlooked an item, nothing more.

And as for not having the money- well, I understand that completely.  I wanted to get that SC-D70 that was selling for $200 (it would have been $202 if I bid for it), but the auction closed before I could get it!  I'm on satellite, and today it's being a little "latent."  Pings are greater than 1000ms, so as I was bidding for it, the latency obviously screwed up the process because when I clicked, I got an "Auction has ended" screen.  :?