Hoyle Book of Games, Vol III

[the_doctor]

Any way to extract the music from the game files and encode them into something like MP3 or OGG?

(I have no music talent myself, my personal recordings are limited to capturing what comes out of the soundcard while it's playing ... at least its via software and not cassette anymore!)

[MusicallyInspired]

The music is in MIDI format not digital. In order to get them recorded in the way they were meant to be heard you'd need to buy an MT-32 or an SC-55 and record the output of the songs from those 2 modules straight from the game.

In short, not without money and a tiny bit of MIDI knowledge.

If you wanted to record it from an Adlib sound card you could do that. Just set a sound editor to record while you play the game.

[the_doctor]

That's what I was figuring (afraid of)    ... I'll check to see if I can do that then via Dosbox.  I know that HBG3 has some digital sampled voices ... i'll check the install.exe to make sure I disable that part of the sound so I can record only the audio ... thanks!

(i also found someone claiming to have a emulated MT-32 running in Dosbox, so i'll try that too ... good thing I have a seperate windows box just for this type of stuff.  i love my mac but she just isnt fast enuf for that stuff.)

[the_doctor]

Well that special dosbox was bunk, but the verison I am running (0.65) says it has a MT32 detected by the install program ... i dont have the knowledge to know if its complete or not....

BUT Dosbox did have a function to record the raw MIDI output and I was able to get a track out of the game and play it back with Mediaplayer.  Now, in theory, would the raw MIDI file have what it takes for someone to run it through the real thing to make it sound the best it (sh/c)ould and save the output to MP3?

I'll save the Adlib versions on my own now that I know the digitized voice wont play for that (it seems to only do it under SB emulation), but would like all your expert opinions before I just record all the MIDI outputs and convert them directly to MP3 via Quicktime or something.  Especially if the real thing can make it sound better and if others are even interested in adding it to the collection here ...

[Ari]

You can send me the raw MIDI data you recorded from the game, and I can record it to MP3 or Ogg through my MT-32 if you want.

[the_doctor]

Thank you!!! lets just try the first one (the titles/credits) and see if it even sounds different enough to warrant any other 'extra' work ...

http://lotz.homedns.org/uploads/inbox/scidhuv_001.mid

(plus we'll see if dosbox's midi dump is actually worth anything for encoding with ...)

[Ari]

OK, there's the slight problem that the file doesn't include the necessary sysex information the game sends to the MT-32 to rearrange or dump new patches and other MIDI info.
I don't have the game, so I can't do it myself. you'd need a program such as MIDI-ox to do this. It's a little complicated.
I'll record it anyway since it sounds ok even without sysex.

[haradan]

I've already recorded Hoyle I and Hoyle II with a CM32L output. I'm going to record Hoyle III as well, but I'm not home right now and won't be in a couple of months. If you are still interested by then (around december) gladly will I share those files.

[Ari]

Here's a recording of the MIDI you sent me. There's no sysex patch added to it, but it sounds ok. On the other hand, I have no idea what it should sound like.

[the_doctor]

sounds sweet ... compared to basic quicktime playback of the raw MIDI, it is richer and uses different instruments which adds to the overall sound.  Thank you much! 



(was it as simple as just playing the file through your equipment and recording the output to OGG?  i'd love to hear the others (i think it's like 8 others) but dont want you to have to go through a lot of steps just for me)

[Ari]

Yes, It's that simple. However, I have to say again that since I don't have the system exclusive file that loads when playing the game with an MT-32 or compatible, I'm not entirely sure this is what it's supposed to sound like.

[Ari]

Here's the newly recorded theme - this time with the proper sysex message.

[the_doctor]

Here's the newly recorded theme - this time with the proper sysex message.

I did notice a couple of differences in there ... thank you very much!!!


Now, theoretically, would all the tracks in the game use the same sysex file, or do they like to use a different 'config' for each track sometimes?  I'd love to hear the rest of the tracks in full glory and I'd be glad to do the work to record the raw data but i dont know if Sierra composers liked to change the setup every track, or if they had one config for all their tracks in a game.  Seeing another file on Tom's utility page leads me to believe 1 SYX file per game ....

[Ari]

While some games make extensive use of sysex during the game (one of the most frustrating of those is Origin's Strike Commander), Sierra mostly uses one sysex file per score. The only game by Sierra, that I do know about that uses more than one sysex file, is Heart of China (actually it's by Dynamix, but it's "part of the Sierra team").
Either way, HBG3 uses just one sysex file, so all you need to do is send me the rest of the midis, like you did with the intro, and I can record them for you.

[NewRisingSUn]

The only game by Sierra, that I do know about that uses more than one sysex file, is Heart of China (actually it's by Dynamix, but it's "part of the Sierra team").

That's news to me. I've extracted all sounds from the Heart of China resources, and they all play fine with the start-up sysex.

And since I've also written a MTBLAST.DRV for Sierra's sound system, and since Dynamix uses Sierra's sound system, I know that the drivers don't even support sending a different bank in-game. The only Sysex that Sierra games send in-game are main volume and reverb changes.

[Ari]

Well, if you check the HOC midi page on this site, you'll find that all  use the same sysex file except for one (hoc_8.mid, I think) which comes with it's own sysex patch. I don't know what's the difference between the two files, but I recall there was a discussion about that some time ago. I doubt Tom would have 2 different sysex files for the same game for no reason.

[NewRisingSUn]

That's a peculiarity of the MIDI files on this site, not of the game itself.

Having listened to the files, the only difference between 8 and the others is the reverb. If you first play any of the other files, then 8 without sending the new sysex, 8 seems to sound right except for the reverb.

Almost all games' sound engines don't support more than one configuration --- they just load a bunch of settings at startup, and only change the reverb in-game, if anything at all. To use more than one set of settings, they would have to unload and then reinitialize their sound driver, which is an awkward procedure (which doesn't stop Ultima 7 from doing it )

The only sound systems to my knowledge that do support "dynamic trimbre management" (and thus won't work with just one sysex, at least not without modifications) are LucasArts' iMuse, and the XMIDI sound drivers. And most games using the XMIDI drivers don't make use of that feature, I only know three: Strike Commander, Serpent Isle, and Realms of Arkania 2, all because they have more than the 64 custom timbres that the MT-32's memory will hold.

[Ari]

But isn't the change of reverb to that one MIDI during the game done via sysex messages?

Anyway, you seem to know much more about the subject than I do. I was just pointing out the fact that Sierra games, for the most part, use only 1 initial sysex message, so that the_doctor wouldn't worry. 

[Cloudschatze]

The additional SysEx messages in Heart of China might simply be text messages (I'd verify, but I'm at work!). I believe that during the 3D sequences, something similar to "3-Space" is sent to the MT-32's LCD.

[NewRisingSUn]

But isn't the change of reverb to that one MIDI during the game done via sysex messages?

Yes.

The additional SysEx messages in Heart of China might simply be text messages (I'd verify, but I'm at work!).

What additional messages? The Sierra driver model has no provisions for changing the display text according to the main program's wishes. It displays a welcome message while transfering the custom timbres at startup, then the game name, and a goodbye message when quitting, all text being taken from the patch bank file. The main program has no access to the MT-32's display.