Warning: this post is going to be *VERY* long. You've been warned 
My own "Arabian Feelings" sounds nice on a SC-155, heh! FAR MUCH BETTER than on this crappy MS synth, despite of having the same sounds... (but I was sure of that
)
However, where are my sweep pads? They're quite inaudible with a SC-155 over the Soundtrack patch
The Star Theme sounds weak, but I must admit that I kinda broke the rules of the usual "Star Theme" patch for my own SoundFont bank
(understand: I've been somewhat excessive while making it)
The "Star Theme" GM MIDI program is usually a short, looped acoustic guitar sample combined with synth strings...
For my own Star Theme patch, I've used some very hard samples from Yamaha DX7 ("Thrang"), Roland D-50 (Atmosphere), Roland U-20 (Electric Pianos!), combined with some synth strings, what an explosive mix, hehe!
However, that SC-155 rendering suffers from polyphony limits! That poor little shaku in the middle is being muted at each note it tries to produce
I guess that the SC-155 (and maybe the SC-55) both have a 32-note polyphony limit? I'm saying that, because my Korg X5DR, which is more recent (1996, 64 note polyphony) than the SC-55 (1991?), does not suffer from this polyphony issue.
A good way to compare this SC-155 rendering with the rendering produced with my SoundFont would be to download the
original IT,
MP3 or
OGG version of my song. The MP3 and OGG files are exact renderings of the original ImpulseTracker file - the MIDI file being a conversion of this one.
The original only uses samples from my SoundFont, just like they are as GM patches, except for three sounds: the background synth strings (which were mixed with a sound from my X5DR to sound softer) and the TR-808/909 hi-hat/bass drum (which was mixed with the Mega Sound Bank SoundFont to sound more electronic).
But the other samples (Star Theme, Flute, Harps, TR-808/909 snare, Shakuhachi, Sweep, Soundtrack, Celesta, Synth Voice) sound EXACTLY like they sound when I play the MIDI version with my SoundFont (without reverb).
...
And about that recording of Van Halen's "Jump"... WHOA
These synth brasses/polysynths sound damn nice, powerful, whatever you want...
Here is the biggest difference with that flat-sounding MS synth!
JV-1010 recordings coming later...
Can't wait for them anymore
Thank you so much for recording these ones already, Juho.
Why use a convertor?
Because I used to have only the MT-32 MIDIs
Either way, I don't think what you're saying is correct, at least in relation to this MIDI file. All I know is, the SC-55 handles it fine with the GS MT-32 patch, Slap Bass 2.
You've said it:
with the GS MT-32 patch.
Maybe that the SC handles it fine because it recognizes a patch which is here to offer some kind of MT-32 compatibilty?
Because, whatever the synth or SoundFont I've tried (SB Live!, my Korg X5DR, the MS synth, Yamaha MidPlayer...), the bass always sounds weird with a GM patch, no matter the MIDI initialization mode (GM, GS, Windows...)
Something which should be tested, would be to render this Kyrandia MIDI file, as I've converted it (only with GM patches, not GS) on a Sound Canvas in GM mode.
In full GM mode, like any other GM synth, it shouldn't have any clue to guess that the Slap Bass' pitch bend was made for a MT-32, and thus, should render it weirdly, like the others.
I'm not sure what you mean by 'stronger' sounds. I think the MT-32's strength is its' soft, well-defined woodwind sounds, drums, etc.
I think so as well.
I think that Fantasia sound is as similar quality to a Sound Blaster General MIDI quality, i.e. a poor Creative attempt at emulating a Roland/et al. sound.
The SC-55 and MT-32 both have different but excellent Fantasia (SC)/Fantasy (MT) pad timbres.
Similar to the Fantasia sound of the Creative SF's
We don't have the same ears/tastes
This Fantasia patch is nothing more than two layers of Roland D-50 samples, combined with a synth voice patch from the Fairlight CMI IIx (the famous "Arr1"), with an additional Fanta Bell sound from Roland U-20, played at very low volume.
So, it's a sound closer to the D-50's Fantasia, while the default Creative Fantasia patch is nothing more than a very small crystal spectrum sample combined with some simple synth strings.
I always loved the D-50 Fantasia, but as I found that this sample alone was too hard-sounding for the Kyrandia soundtracks (and with any MIDI file in general), I mixed it with some other sounds to make it sound softer, while keeping a sound similar to the D-50.
I could also have used the Fantasia patch from the SC series (which sounds closer to the MT-32 Fantasy), but I prefer the D-50 version
That shakuhachi sounded flat and odd. The pan flute sounded kind of muted as well.
For the shakuhachi, same as the Fantasia, just as I said above.
The Pan Flute sounds muted because it has a stronger attack than its decay.
It has less "hiss" than other pan flute patches, but I prefer it that way.
I will have to relisten to the track to comment properly, though.
Kyrandia 1's strength in a MT-32 soundtrack is that it uses pretty much exclusively excellent MT-32 timbres. I think it's very hard to emulate that. So, I'm pretty harsh when it comes to evaluating remixes or conversions.
And, I think it's different to say a sound is good or bad in a particular arrangement of a MIDI file, than it is to say generally speaking a sound is good or bad.
Your comments have their interest, but I think that they may have been influenced by the MIDI files I chose, which are not really those which sound best on my SF.
Again, not sure what that means.
Is my English sometimes approximative?
Well, even so- regardless of your nuances and bone-picking over stronger/softer sounds, if it renders a MIDI file worse than the original sequence, that kind of disproves your 'superb soundfont' argument. Though it could be a poor conversion or bad patch choice, or a multitude of factors, I guess.
Have I said that my SoundFont was "superb"? I don't think so. I simply prefer it over all other synths I've heard, that's all
And I don't think it disproves it to hear that it renders a MIDI file worse than another synth,
if the MIDI was composed for/on this other synth (even more if this synth wasn't GM-compliant).
The example of Juho is quite representative of what I mean: he recorded one of my very own songs, "Arabian Feelings", with his SC-155.
And I think that it sounds far much better on my SoundFont than on this Roland Sound Canvas,
because I've composed it with my SF bank.
But it doesn't really disproves his SC-155 (if we forget about polyphony issues, considering the age of the synth): it simply sounds different, not weird.
I'd recommend a file which has patches lots of GM devices do well. Take:
http://smc.sq7.org/assorted/WOODSGM2.MIDFor example. "Outside Brandon's Home", from LoK1. Converted by me for Sound Canvas General MIDI, should play back well on any GM device. (Doesn't end though, I arranged it so that you fade out on the loop.)
OK, thanks, I recorded it with my SF, you'll find it here:
http://maxime.abbey.free.fr/soundfont/brandon.mp3 (90% reverb version is
here).
(I nearly forgot to fade it out...
)
In case you'd wonder, some info:
- IMO, the piano would have sounded better if it had been the Piano 2 or Piano 3 patch
(as Piano 1, I use a quite standard-sounding piano, which sounds more natural on many piano MIDIs; as Piano 2 & 3, IIRC, I use Roland XP-30 & XP-50 pianos, which sound different, and IMO, better with MIDIs using other tones than acoustic pianos... it depends of your tastes in acoustic piano sounds)
- you may find that the acoustic bass lacks sustain/decay; I've tweaked like this recently to sound better, more natural, less "looped" on some MIDIs: it effectively sounds stronger (more "bass"
) and close to a "real" acoustic bass, but that modification led some MIDIs, like this one, to sound slightly worse than they used to, when my acoustic bass had a more sustained, synth-sounding loop. I'll have to re-tweak it to find a compromise.
- you'll hear once again that damn Fantasia patch you like so much
I don't remember if you have a SC-55?
If so, maybe could you record this MIDI file using your synth, so I can have a concrete opinion about a real Sound Canvas (and not about the MS synth...) with a MIDI file I like better than the ones I've heard?
I used to, I upgraded to a mk II. But given how poor that soundfont sounds, I'd say it's not a bad estimate.
I don't think much of the SC-55 at all, I think where it counts, namely drums, guitars, and orchestral instruments, it falls well short. Which is why there's so much scope to enhance pretty much any SC-55 GM soundtrack ever made.
I still have to checkout the differences between the "normal" and the "mkII" version.
And, no, I'll not answer to this ultimate negative opinion on my SoundFont bank
That said, every instrument has cohesiveness. The first thing I noticed when I listened to Tom's SC-55 Mp3's back in the early 2000's, after playing around with my SB GM soundfont sounds, was that every instrument is part of the same 'team'. One sample doesn't make another sound better or worse, it melds together nicely to kind of be in harmony and have the same resonance. The MT-32's different like that. It has 'star performers' like the Clarinet, and duds like the pianos (though, there are some good MT-32 pianos). So if you listen to a MT-32 MIDI file, things can sound out of place.
That confirms what I used to think about the Sound Canvas line
I think the best thing about the SC-8850 is that it's like a SC-55 but way better. Same sort of instruments (although 1,300 more
) but less excess reverb and so, so much clarity! It's like listening to the instrument played live. Of course, that's a problem when the patch is ****ty, like some of the 8850's string sections and pianos, which are badly fake. But it's excellent for the drums, clarinet, even guitars (although other modules do 'em better) and orchestrals, french horns, trumpets et al.
Cool
As you seem to have listened (or owned) to both SC-55 (mkII) and SC-88(20/50), could you answer this question:
Does the SC-88(20/50) reproduces a MIDI file EXACTLY like a SC-55 when set to use the SC-55 map? (as far as I remember, it has a button to enable some kind of SC-55 playback mode?)
Or does its rendering of MIDIs in SC-55 mode REALLY sounds different than the rendering of that same MIDI files on a true SC-55? (eg. different sounds/patches; not only some minor difference like reverb settings)
Don't know if I'm really clear...
I think there's a recording online of the Timbermist Woods you posted converted to SC-55 GS and GM. Can't think where it is now though. It was posted on this website forum..
I'll record the track when I record more Kyrandia tracks (still finishing the soundtrack CD).
EDIT: Here's the link:
http://home.arcor.de/moturimi/Sound/Gamemusic/Kyrandia/Wow, these recordings are great! Thanks for the link!
I wonder which patch has been used as "Fantasia" here? Sounds a little like the Atmosphere/Guitar/Harp patches of the MT-32 to me.
It's the kind of shakuhachi you like? I understand that you don't like mine, heh! This one sounds WAY different.
To my ears, It sounds more like a treble synth string patch, rather than a japanese flute patch, just like if it was a Calliope patch... (which could often be considered as the "synth-sounding" version of a shakuhachi/pan flute patch)
Again, I don't know if I'm clear here
Well, it's one reason. But most of those GM patches weren't great.
But it would be unfair to condemn the SF on one Mp3 recording. If you add reverb and use that MIDI file I uploaded (fade the WAV out), I'll have another listen.
Well, now you can
I'm ready to hear your harsh comments, LOL
Well, I didn't say you should buy a SC-55
I also didn't say the SC-55 was my synth of choice. I don't think there's many synths (in fact, any!) that I could have and sell my others. I keep a variety (4 currently) of synths because when I mix MIDI files, I want the best output. One or two modules doesn't do many MIDI files justice (though, the MT-32 + 8850 is pretty damn good).
I wouldn't buy a SC-88. I'd buy an 8850. The SC-88 also 'borrows' many sounds from the SC-55 with slightly higher audio sampling. The 88Pro and 8820/50's sampling is so much nicer, and worth the extra.
Of course, it depends what your purposes are.
- Alistair
OK, thanks for the advice!
I should definitely look for a more recent SC-88 (SC-8820 or 8850)...
The problem is to find it at a decent price... because they seem to be rare, compared to the SC-88!
OK, they are newer, but it leaves me with the impression that they have not been as successful as the previous Sound Canvas...
