World of Xeen: Two out of three Roland products FAILED with this game

[MikeSol]

My MT-32 gives me the buffer overflow error that is so common with first gen units on faster machines with this game. You will always get this error with this game no matter how much you slow the game down. The reason for this was discussed already in the MT-32 section of this forum.

My 'new' SC-55mkII that I got on Ebay also fails with this game. The sound effects that are supposed to be generated by the SC-55 don't play. Whenever a sound effect should be generated, I instead get a NO INSTRUMENT error in the display. The music works fine at least. When I initialize the unit for GM (rather then GS), the sound effects play, but they are the wrong sound effects. If anyone has a solutiion, I'm all virtual ears but I am guessing it is due to the same problem discussed in another thread.

My Roland SCC-1 does, however, work perfectly with this game. I did notice in directly comparing the SCC-1 to the mkII that the mkII sounds 'cleaner' or 'clearer' for lack of a better word. There is noticable noise in the background of my SCC-1 that does not exist on my mkII. I never noticed it before. Maybe its picking up noise from the computer it is sitting in?

I've tried many games since testing World of Xeen and they all worked fine so I hope it is just this one game that gives me this problem as I did buy the mkII for my games. I would like to retire the SCC-1 and the computer that is using it.

[Cloudschatze]

Just for grins, on your SC-55mkII, set "Rx GM On" to OFF, perform an "Init GS," and then try Xeen again...

[Cloudschatze]

Okay, I just downloaded World of Xeen and tested it with my SC-55mkII, and discovered what I had partially suspected.

Here's the deal: New World Computing's MIDI system is a piece o' crap.

Not only does it not send a GM System On message, but it doesn't send a GS Reset either. If your SC happened to be left in "GM mode," from a prior game, etc., the sound-effects would be wrong, as you've noticed (because the bank select CC is being ignored).

So, don't worry about setting "Rx GM On" to off, as mentioned in my previous message. Simply perform the "Init GS" procedure before playing, and everything will sound correct.

And if you're wondering why it works fine on your SCC-1, it's simply because the SCC-1 doesn't have a "GM Mode."

[MikeSol]

So, don't worry about setting "Rx GM On" to off, as mentioned in my previous message. Simply perform the "Init GS" procedure before playing, and everything will sound correct.
And if you're wondering why it works fine on your SCC-1, it's simply because the SCC-1 doesn't have a "GM Mode."

Thanks for trying it out yourself. That was very nice of you.

If by the init GS procedure you mean holding down the right instrument button while turning on the power and then hitting ALL I already tried that. Here is what happened. Try it for yourself if you still have the game installed.

1. Do a GS init
2. Run the game and launch your save position.
3. IMMEDIATELY fire an arrow (don't move your characters!) by hitting 's' or clicking the shoot button.

You should hear the sound of the arrow being played by the mkII. At this point, everything looks ok.

4. Now move your characters forward one square.
5. Fire another arrow. At this point I get the NO INSTRUMENT error.

Are these the results you get when you try the above or do the sound effects continue to work correctly after moving your characters?

[Cloudschatze]

5. Fire another arrow. At this point I get the NO INSTRUMENT error.

After testing again, I experienced this as well. The reason being is...

When you fire an arrow, a Program Change message is first sent on MIDI channel 9 to select instrument 33: Acoustic Bass.

When you move your characters, a Bank Select controller is first sent (on MIDI channel 9 again) to switch to variation bank 5, and then a Program Change message is sent to select sound-effect 127: Footsteps.

Notice what's missing for the bowstring effect? Yeah, a Bank Select controller. It needs one.

What happens is that after you've taken a few steps and decide to fire an arrow, you're still in the variation bank when PC33 is sent. There isn't an instrument at that location in bank 5, so you receive a 'NO INSTRUMENT' message.

As you might suspect, the capital-tone fallback feature is the only reason the SCC-1 is spared the effects of this programming travesty.

[MikeSol]

As you might suspect, the capital-tone fallback feature is the only reason the SCC-1 is spared the effects of this programming travesty.

Yeah ok. Thanks for all the help with this. Really. Without this forum and people like you I am pretty sure I would have believed the unit was malfunctioning. Habit of mine always assuming the worst. 

It is possible that this need for the fallback feature is going to rear its ugly head at some point again, so I guess I should never sell the SCC-1. I think New World Computing only tested their midi code on first gen SC-55s where the fallback is present (if I am recalling your other posts about this correctly) so whatever they needed to do to prevent this from happening on the mkII they never put into place.

[Cloudschatze]

Did the original releases of Clouds and Darkside support General MIDI / Sound Canvas playback? I'm suspecting not, which might explain the relatively poor implementation in World of Xeen.

I'll check later, and can provide a recording or two for comparison (if you want), but my hunch is that a CM-32L/64/LAPC-I may be the optimal playback device...

[MikeSol]

Did the original releases of Clouds and Darkside support General MIDI / Sound Canvas playback? I'm suspecting not, which might explain the relatively poor implementation in World of Xeen.
I'll check later, and can provide a recording or two for comparison (if you want), but my hunch is that a CM-32L/64/LAPC-I may be the optimal playback device...

I installed the game from the Might & Magic VI CD which contains Clouds and Darkside. I have to install them together as Worlds. However, I do have Clouds and Darkside also on floppies. I ran the installer for Clouds and it does support the Sound Canvas. 'Roland Canvas/GS' is exactly what I see. It defaulted to MT-32 which also does not work for me due to the buffer overflow error.  So I think you need either a first gen SC-55, a SCC-1, or second gen MT-32 or one of its compatibles you mentioned above for optimal playback with this game.

If you mean a recording with a MT-32 or equivalent, that I would like to hear. The music works fine on the mkII and I do have the SCC-1. I would gladly use the MT-32 if I could.

[Cloudschatze]

If you mean a recording with a MT-32 or equivalent, that I would like to hear. The music works fine on the mkII and I do have the SCC-1. I would gladly use the MT-32 if I could.

I tried both MT-32 and CM-64 playback, but couldn't bring myself to record any of the output. Bleh. Better stick with the SCC-1.

The CM-64 did benefit from the use of the PCM sound-effects (not unlike the GS playback).

[MikeSol]

[I tried both MT-32 and CM-64 playback, but couldn't bring myself to record any of the output. Bleh. Better stick with the SCC-1.

Yep, already playing it with the SCC-1. Thanks for everything you did here.

[Great Hierophant]

Now I know what device to Roland GS device to obtain, thanks to this thread.  A non-GM SC-55 or CM-300 is the device of choice.  You really need an SCC-1 for DOS games after all, and since I will have nothing to do with card-based Roland or Yamaha LA/GM/GS/XG devices, it must be either of those two devices (a CM-500 being overkill.)

[Cloudschatze]

Now I know what device to Roland GS device to obtain, thanks to this thread.

I hope you're not using this single, terribly programmed game as basis for judgement...

A non-GM SC-55 or CM-300 is the device of choice.

To each their own. I won't be trading-in the mkII anytime soon.

[Great Hierophant]

Well, this game really shows the assumptions that game makers could make and reduce compatibility to a fraction of the devices to which the game should be compatible.  There are many games that support "Roland SCC-1" or "Roland GS".  As we know, the Roland SCC-1 does not officially support GM, which for Roland GS devices is a mode that limits their functionality without adding anything.  A non-GS Roland SC-55 will interpret a GM-reset as a GS-reset. The difference between the two reset commands is that a GM reset disables NRPN and Bank Select commands while an GS reset enables them.  GM music will not be sending bank select commands or know anything about NRPN. 

[Cloudschatze]

A non-GS Roland SC-55 will interpret a GM-reset as a GS-reset.

I think you meant "non-GM" here. Keep in mind that an SC-55 that does support GM can likely have 'Rx GM On' set to off.

The difference between the two reset commands is that a GM reset disables NRPN and Bank Select commands while an GS reset enables them.  GM music will not be sending bank select commands or know anything about NRPN. 

Yes, yes. 

[MikeSol]

Does any game take advantage of the extra sounds and polyphony of the mkII? If not, can someone point me to a midi file that uses the mkII beyond what a normal SC-55 can handle?

[Great Hierophant]

Does any game take advantage of the extra sounds and polyphony of the mkII? If not, can someone point me to a midi file that uses the mkII beyond what a normal SC-55 can handle?

Polyphony, almost certainly.  Sounds, wholly unknown.  You can see if a game is using mkII sounds by watching the screen during gameplay. If the game shows it is using a variation bank that the mkII possesses and the 55 lacks, you have your answer.

I think you meant "non-GM" here. Keep in mind that an SC-55 that does support GM can likely have 'Rx GM On' set to off.

And if a game sends a GM reset, would that override that setting?

[Cloudschatze]

I think you meant "non-GM" here. Keep in mind that an SC-55 that does support GM can likely have 'Rx GM On' set to off.

And if a game sends a GM reset, would that override that setting?

No, the only reset that will affect the setting is an "Initialize All."

By the way, I checked a GM/GS SC-55 manual, and it does not allow one to disable the reception of a GM System On.

Not that it really matters. For this to really be an issue, you would need to encounter a soundtrack composed for GS, but headed with a GM System On. If you find one, let me know.

[TURRICAN]

5. Fire another arrow. At this point I get the NO INSTRUMENT error.

After testing again, I experienced this as well. The reason being is...

When you fire an arrow, a Program Change message is first sent on MIDI channel 9 to select instrument 33: Acoustic Bass.

When you move your characters, a Bank Select controller is first sent (on MIDI channel 9 again) to switch to variation bank 5, and then a Program Change message is sent to select sound-effect 127: Footsteps.

Notice what's missing for the bowstring effect? Yeah, a Bank Select controller. It needs one.

What happens is that after you've taken a few steps and decide to fire an arrow, you're still in the variation bank when PC33 is sent. There isn't an instrument at that location in bank 5, so you receive a 'NO INSTRUMENT' message.

As you might suspect, the capital-tone fallback feature is the only reason the SCC-1 is spared the effects of this programming travesty.

As you might suspect, the capital-tone fallback feature is the only reason the SCC-1 is spared the effects of this programming travesty.

Yeah ok. Thanks for all the help with this. Really. Without this forum and people like you I am pretty sure I would have believed the unit was malfunctioning. Habit of mine always assuming the worst.  

It is possible that this need for the fallback feature is going to rear its ugly head at some point again, so I guess I should never sell the SCC-1. I think New World Computing only tested their midi code on first gen SC-55s where the fallback is present (if I am recalling your other posts about this correctly) so whatever they needed to do to prevent this from happening on the mkII they never put into place.

Hi,


The instrument variation concept of the SC-55 and SCC-1 is clearly explained in the SC-55 manual (page 42) : http://media.rolandus.com/manuals/SC-55_OM.pdf

• On the SCC-1 and SC-55 : when an instrument variation which doesn't exist, is selected, it will fallback to an existing instrument variation, or else the capital instrument will be substituted.
  
  
• On the SC-55mkII and SC-88 : Roland has removed (or had to remove ?) the "variation fallback" feature, starting from the SC-55mkII, and when an instrument variation which doesn't exist, is selected, a "no instrument" error message will appear on the LCD display, and there won't be any playback performed on the affected channel(s).
  
  
• On the SC-8850 and Virtual Sound Canvas : when an instrument variation which doesn't exist, is selected, it will be even worse, because it will keep the current instrument and perform the playback with it, resulting in a wrong playback, since it may be using a different instrument than the one intended.
  
  

Now, being a fan of this great "Might and Magic : World of Xeen" game, especially thanks to its lovely musics, I've always been annoyed by this MIDI sound effect problem, happening on my SC-55mkII, when firing an arrow.

Then, since I've got knowledge in MIDI coding, a few years ago, I've modified the DOSBox's MIDI code, to finally be able to play this game without any problem, using my SC-55mkII.

Also, I intended to submit this fix to the DOSBox author, but since it's a fix useful for one game only, and also only if using either a SC-55mkII, SC-88(Pro), SC-8850 or Virtual Sound Canvas, I thought it wouldn't be included in the official DOSBox build anyway, so I didn't bother to contact the DOSBox author.

However, now I've realised that it would be selfish to not share this fix with other people who may be interested in it, and then, I'm finally sharing what I've done, on this forum.


So, to understand how my fix works, let me first remind you, that to use an instrument variation, you first send a "Bank Select" message, and then a "Program Change" (instrument change) message : the "Bank Select" processing will be suspended until a "Program Change" message is received.

Now, what my fix is doing, is scanning absolutely all of the MIDI messages being sent to the MIDI device, and when a "Program Change" message has been sent, the fix will simply immediately send to the same channel, a "Bank Select" message with a value of 0 (to select the capital instrument).

Since the "Bank Select" message sent by my fix will be suspended until a "Program Change" message is received, it won't change the current instrument selection being used, whether it's a capital instrument or an instrument variation.

Then, when the game will change the instrument, if it's first sending a "Bank Select" message, before sending a "Program Change" message, then the "Bank Select" message sent by the game will replace the suspended "Bank Select" message sent by my fix, but if the game is only sending a "Program Change" message, then the suspended "Bank Select" message sent by my fix will finally be performed to select the capital instrument, avoiding to select an instrument variation which doesn't exist on the MIDI device.


Since attachements seem to be disabled on this forum, here are links to a Windows executable, the modified "midi.cpp" source file, and also a ".diff" file :
dosbox-0.74_xeen.zip
dosbox-0.74-src_xeen.zip
dosbox-0.74_xeen.diff

Now, if you would like to see this fix included in the official DOSBox build, you can contact the DOSBox author : if he receives many requests from many different persons, he may consider including it for the next official DOSBox release.

Also, if this fix is included in the official DOSBox build, it could be enabled with a new option in the DOSBox configuration file.

Finally, is anybody aware of other games having a similar problem, and then for which this fix is also working ?

[MikeSol]

I was shocked when I went to check out this forum and I saw a thread I started almost four years ago (!!) at the top of the forum again. I was even more shocked to find out that you may have actually found a fix for this rare but annoying problem.

I have DosBox, my mkII and World of Xeen ready to go. But could you please give me instructions on how to install it? I am running the 0.74 version of DosBox. Which of these three files do I actually need? Do I just replace the files already on my hard drive or are these additional files?

I *THINK* another game where this capital tone fallback thing was a problem was Lands of Lore CD Edition. If you choose the Sound Canvas as your sound effects platform, some of them would not play. You would get the NO INSTRUMENT error. But if you intend to test this game yourself, you need to verify first that my claim about this game is accurate as its been awhile and my memory is a bit hazy.

I'll gladly test both games myself, but I would like instructions as far as your patch is concerned to make sure I install it properly.

[TURRICAN]

I was shocked when I went to check out this forum and I saw a thread I started almost four years ago (!!) at the top of the forum again. I was even more shocked to find out that you may have actually found a fix for this rare but annoying problem.

I have DosBox, my mkII and World of Xeen ready to go. But could you please give me instructions on how to install it? I am running the 0.74 version of DosBox. Which of these three files do I actually need? Do I just replace the files already on my hard drive or are these additional files?

I *THINK* another game where this capital tone fallback thing was a problem was Lands of Lore CD Edition. If you choose the Sound Canvas as your sound effects platform, some of them would not play. You would get the NO INSTRUMENT error. But if you intend to test this game yourself, you need to verify first that my claim about this game is accurate as its been awhile and my memory is a bit hazy.

I'll gladly test both games myself, but I would like instructions as far as your patch is concerned to make sure I install it properly.

Sorry for not sharing my fix earlier, but I guess it's better late than never  

Well, assuming you are a Windows user, and since you already have the official Windows DOSBox 0.74 version installed, there's nothing else to install then.

All you need to do is extracting my modified DOSBox 0.74 executable from the "dosbox-0.74_xeen.zip" file, to the directory containing the official DOSBox 0.74 version : you should rename my executable, to avoid overwriting the official DOSBox 0.74 executable.

Now for your tests, you should first try the games with the official DOSBox 0.74 executable, to make sure you are doing the right steps ingame to get the "no instrument" error message on the LCD display of your SC-55mkII, then perform the same steps using my modified executable this time, and then report here if my fix is also working for other games too.