Indy 4 (Fate of Atlantis) OST CD

[Locutus]

Hello,

Recently, I learned that there was an original soundtrack CD released around 1992 containing the score to the classic DOS adventure Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis.

I always liked the music of LucasGames adventures. Indy 4 normally supports the Roland MT-32 among some older stuff like Adlib, however no there was no support for General MIDI. So I thought the music on the CD probably would be an arranged MT-32 soundtrack of sorts, then I found this link and listened in:

http://downloads.khinsider.com/game-soundtracks/album/indiana-jones-and-the-fate-of-atlantis

I think, we can all agree there is no MT-32 playing in that MP3s, but it certainly sounds like wavetable synthesis. So the question remains:

What MIDI synthesizer is used in this soundtrack release?

To me, it sounds more sophisticated than an MT-32. I believe they'd choose something, that would work without editing and re-arranging all the MT-32 MIDI files, but I have no clue what that might be.

Anyway, maybe somebody recognizes the voices and can point something out.

PS: To be honest though, I think that some of the voices heard in the arrangement don't work very well (considering timing), because of too long attack envelopes (especially brass and strings).

Regards,
locutus

[Marten]

I believe (and this should be easily confirmed by downloading just one of the files from the khinsider link, and checking the encoding versus my notes below) that the khinsider version was recorded by Kenneth L. Simonsen.

I have several OSTs of the Fate of Atlantis soundtrack in my mp3 collection.  None is a straight recording of an MT-32.

Soundtrack #1: 22 tracks, 74 MB total, concluding with "Atlantis Remix".  I think this is a straight recording of Highland Productions' GM-MIDI converted collection (with the Atlantis Remix being more properly known as the "Crab Raft Remix), probably recorded on a Sound Blaster AWE.  All files are recorded at 160 kbps CBR, 44 kHz (stereo).

Soundtrack #2: 42 tracks arranged as two CDs (21 tracks each), 109 MB total, by Roberto Arturo Diaz-Marino ("Draggor").  All files are recorded at 128 kbps CBR, 44 kHz (joint stereo); the music has been converted to General MIDI and then recorded with unknown samples.  Website:  http://www.draggor.com/music/vg_ijfa.asp

Soundtrack #3: 42 tracks arranged as two CDs (20 tracks and 22 tracks), 155 MB total, by Kenneth L. Simonsen.  This version includes nicely made front and back CD covers.  Recorded VBR, 44 kHz (joint stereo); the music has been converted to General MIDI and then recorded with unknown samples.

Unfortunately, all of these versions are unbalanced to my ears.  The first soundtrack which I think is just the GM conversion played on a Sound Blaster isn't bad, but it is unremarkable and I miss the timpani from the MT-32.  And despite the work to pick "high quality" instruments for the 2-CD versions, the people that made these soundtracks didn't really ensure the instruments they picked would work together in harmony.  You can't just take "really good guitar sample" and "really good piano sample" and expect they'll sound right together.  At the very least, you have to consider that one sample may be louder than the next.

The results of the 2-CD efforts are soundtracks that sometimes sounded very good on one track of music, terrible on another piece, and wobbled between passable and give-it-a-pass on the majority of songs.

Bottom line: I'd much rather have MP3s of the original MT-32 score.

Addendum:

* The page at http://stud4.tuwien.ac.at/~e9125985/IJC/Movies+TV/Soundtracks/FoA.htm offers yet another version of the soundtrack, made by Roger R Holten into 19 tracks using General MIDI files and recording with a "high quality soundcard".  Yawn.

* Someone named "Lundquist" also made a soundtrack which was allegedly better than Draggor's, but I don't have it and don't know where it can be found now.  Mentioned here:  http://raven.theraider.net/archive/index.php/t-4204.html

[Locutus]

Hello Marten,

so this isn't an official OST release after all...

I think I have mistaken it for one, which is why I was so surprised in the first place. It didn't come to my mind that someone just might have put some effort into creating a nice cover. :-)

Well, actually it should have been clear from the beginning, since the cover lacks any logos of release labels.

Thanks again for your insight.

I also prefer the original MT-32 score and you are right about the use of samples. As for Sound Blaster cards... I don't care much for any recordings utilizing those. My AWE cards sound rather flat to me, in most cases. Maybe, by loading some quality soundfont into a Live! or Audigy, you could squeeze out some interesting voices, but I'd rather stick to Roland or Yamaha.

Does anyone have the recorded MT-32 MIDIs by the way?

I can't find them on the net, but would like to add them to my collection of MT-32 scores.

Regards,
locutus

[Zemus]

If I'm not mistaken, the soundtrack on khinsider is from http://soundtracks.mixnmojo.com which was forced to take it down after a C&D from LucasArts.

It's easy to hear that these people just put some nice-sounding samples together without having any idea of how to mix them or what the music sounds like on an MT-32. The excessive reverb which makes it sound like the virtual mic was set far away from the virtual instrument doesn't help either...

The page at http://stud4.tuwien.ac.at/~e9125985/IJC/Movies+TV/Soundtracks/FoA.htm offers yet another version of the soundtrack, made by Roger R Holten into 19 tracks using General MIDI files and recording with a "high quality soundcard".  Yawn.

I have no idea what he means either and I made the stupid thing. The files aren't available anymore because 1) I don't have most of them and 2) I don't feel the quality of those I have is good enough to upload. They're around 7 years old after all.

I'm working on a complete MT-32 soundtrack I hope will be up by the time Indy4 is released...

[NewRisingSUn]

So it's just another instance of someone playing MT-32 MIDIs on their little sampling machines. It's bad enough when they call it "enhancing", but inexcusable if they refer to it as "the soundtrack", as in this case where people confuse it with an official release. But I've written way too much about this topic before.

Does anyone have the recorded MT-32 MIDIs by the way?

I have them all fully extracted and assembled, including iMuse commands. I'm not posting them however because I've become so terrified of the possibility that people might record bad enhancements from them. I've sent them to Zemus however, since he stated his intent of creating a complete Original Sound Version soundtrack.

[Alistair]

I hear you NRS, but it's only natural that in the absence of the soundtrack being recorded (by someone with the device), people will do GM, regardless if the score was GM or MT-32.

That's not to say I like it- it's disappointing. But MIDi theory amongst video game music enthusiasts is extremely embarrassingly poor, especially given a large amount of game music in the last 20 years has been MIDI.

What the game music community needs is really, more knowledge and talent. But the more I hear phrases like "MIDI-quality" and "the MIDI is horrible" when people are clueless, the more I give up and focus on my own site. You can't save every score out there from being recorded by some know-nothing, so all you can do is record it, or provide the MIDI's to people who will.

- Alistair

[NewRisingSUn]

But the more I hear phrases like "MIDI-quality" and "the MIDI is horrible" when people are clueless

On what website do you encounter such people?

[Marten]

On a positive note, I'm very happy to hear that Zemus is on top of the issue

[Zemus]

I have completed some of the tracks and done a couple of quick recordings for some people who wanted to have a "sneak peek".

Fighting
New York

Try to compare with the recordings from those URLs you posted and you'll notice these sound quite different when it comes to balance and reverb.

[Marten]

One piece I'm looking forward to hearing is the one listed as "Atlantis Outer Ring 2" if you check the GM translated copies at http://highland.mixnmojo.com/indy4.shtml

The drums only sound right on the original MT-32.

[parazythum]

Funny, I talked about this one with Alistair last week... Nice to see there's something coming.

[Alistair]

On what website do you encounter such people?

Usually on random Google searches when I'm searching for music (rare stuff), but I'm sure you could find some similar phrases at www.gamingforce.org/forums

- Alistair

[NewRisingSUn]

you'll notice these sound quite different when it comes to balance and reverb.

I have to admit that I actually hate the balances in the "Fighting" music, especially the ridiculously low-volume drums. Nevertheless, the original sound version, with all such imperfections, should be faithfully presented before another attempt at an enhancement is to be made.

Usually on random Google searches when I'm searching for music (rare stuff), but I'm sure you could find some similar phrases at

I actually have never come across such people in Game Music discussions, only when reading reviews of old games by people who think they're making an important point by writing that the "graphics look dated by today's standards". Gee, ya think?! Stupid people.

Writing a good "old game" review is so much more difficult than reviewing a contemporary game, because a good review grades the game's technical performance against the capabilities of the hardware used, requiring the reviewer to know about the capabilities of the hardware used, and against other games of the era, requiring the review to have an overview of the market at the time of the game's release. All that in addition to knowing how to run the game in its best possible configuration (hello, AGI games with PC speaker sound players because they're too stupid to run DosBox with the "-machine tandy" option).

And obviously, most dumbass reviewers have none of these elusive skills. And yes, I know that this has been completely off-topic.

[Cloudschatze]

This line of conversation reminds me of a tour my wife and I took of the Seattle Art Institute a few years back, who offer degrees in a myriad of arts-related fields, including music production.

So there we were. I'd decided to get a feel for their music program, and was shown the recording studio. Several people were within, working on their projects, and I had the opportunity to ask some questions, one of which had to do with what the school was teaching about MIDI.

"MIDI is dead," someone said.

And thus it was, that I looked down at the Korg Triton nearby, and responded with a question as to how said individual imagined that pressing the keys triggered the generation of sound.

I didn't feel inclined to enroll.

This quarter, the local community college finally had a large enough enrollment to offer the "Electronic Music" course that I'd been trying to get into for the past two years. The instructor, on the first day of class, informed us that he wouldn't be going into any sort of detail on the workings of MIDI, because a.) He admitted to not knowing much about it, and b.) He wasn't that interested in it.

It seems we've entered a new sort of age. An age where people just use stuff, and have no interest in how it works. An age of VSTs and loop-based music production, where an instructor's idea of a studio is a notebook computer, a USB audio interface, and a 25-key MIDI controller. An age where people want pre-programmed "naturalism" and dynamics in their sounds, and have no interest in learning about the correct and proper use of CCs, RPN/NRPNs, and SysEx.

Guess I'm out-of-touch or something.

[Alistair]

I guess the point is, it's like art and Photoshop- if you still don't have an idea about the basic theories behind why you do things, not just, 'applying this effect makes it look good', then you won't be as good as someone who does.

So while people can do it themselves, it's still better to have a clue. Regardless of whether or not you use MIDI, how much reverb you use, pitch shifting, etc, are all things you do with digital audio or loop based music, so to say MIDI is dead or inferior is ignorance -nearly all the MIDI theory I know was used to some extent in a recent digital music production course I took. And these were professional artists!

- Alistair

[parazythum]

Aaah, yes, Photoshop and its famous "halo" plugin More than 90% of drivers don't know how their car really works. Less than 10% of computer users exploit more than 10% of their machine's capabilities. Do you think musicians are really different ?

It reminds me a funny discussion, when I was still programing bits of C++ / assembler in 1997 (games under DOS using SB cards, etc). I had a problem with an interrupt redirection I had rewritten, and couldn't find why. I went to see the developpers of my company. I explained them what I had done, how, etc, and stopped suddenly, because they looked more and more like "Grays" (you know, the aliens with big eyes). One finally stammered faintly : "Err, you know, we are Windows developpers, I don't know what is that interrupt thing you're talking about". Do you think it made my day ?

In my story, replace the word "interrupt" with "MIDI", "developper" with "musician" and you get pretty well the same one told by Cloudschatze

[MichalN]

Same thing as English speakers typically not knowing any foreign languages. They don't have to.

[Zemus]

The first six tracks are uploaded at http://s-island.mixnmojo.com

[NewRisingSUn]

I would remove the storeroom music from the beginning of "Kerner Steals the Statue", since it's heard for the fourth time already. I know the game plays it, but a soundtrack CD should be more liberal about this. I would also rename it to just "The Statue", since at the beginning of the track we don't even know who Kerner is.

In "God of Deceit" (love the title!), the transition between 0111 and 0062 is somewhat abrupt, you're just stopping 0111, whereas the game fades it out.
I see it ends with the pitched-down 0053 sequence 1. There's also a sequence 2, which as you know is unused by the game and replaced with a melody-less 0099. I think it would be nice to add that sequence 2 at the end of the track --- after all, normal game players are never going to hear that music, and that's what a soundtrack CD should provide in my opinion.

[Zemus]

I would remove the storeroom music from the beginning of "Kerner Steals the Statue", since it's heard for the fourth time already. I know the game plays it, but a soundtrack CD should be more liberal about this. I would also rename it to just "The Statue", since at the beginning of the track we don't even know who Kerner is.

The reason I added it there is that I thought it made for a better beginning to the track than the music that plays during the close-up. I shortened it down to 8 measures precisely because it was played earlier and the track was already getting long enough.

In "God of Deceit" (love the title!), the transition between 0111 and 0062 is somewhat abrupt, you're just stopping 0111, whereas the game fades it out.
I see it ends with the pitched-down 0053 sequence 1. There's also a sequence 2, which as you know is unused by the game and replaced with a melody-less 0099. I think it would be nice to add that sequence 2 at the end of the track --- after all, normal game players are never going to hear that music, and that's what a soundtrack CD should provide in my opinion.

I like using dialogue from the game and I thought that fit well.
I thought that the music was used later in the game and that sequence was used there. If it's really unused, then I'll create an alternative version and post that as a bonus track to give visitors the choice. I'll also look into making the transition less abrupt with a cross-fade, like the game.
I've already planned another alternative track as well. The Atlantis music only plays percussion when you walk around and I was thinking of making both a percussion-less track and a track with percussion.