Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Was it really this bad?  (Read 2531 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Amigaz
Senior Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 140



View Profile
« on: November 07, 2008, 09:39:57 AM »

Have recently hooked up my vintage PC(s) to my Mac to record some game tunes to compare the output from different soundcards.
First up was my Soundblaster Pro 2 (CT2600) , recorded the intro tunes from both Pinball Dreams and Pinball Illusions.
The output from it is really horrible, the .mod music isn't played properly and it sound quite muffled
http://sites.google.com/site/jivemaster2008/Home/PD_INTRO.ogg?attredirects=0
http://sites.google.com/site/jivemaster2008/Home/PFant_Intro.ogg?attredirects=0

Compare with the Gravis Ultrasound PnP
http://sites.google.com/site/jivemaster2008/Home/PD_INTRO_2.ogg?attredirects=0
http://sites.google.com/site/jivemaster2008/Home/PFant_Intro2.ogg?attredirects=0

I know Creative soundcards from this period aren't top quality but can it really be this bad?
Logged
Hopeapaa
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 45


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2008, 10:57:03 AM »

Hmm... I remember reading somewhere that with Sound Blaster the Pinball Fantasies music would run too slow. It was because of some technical restriction, but I couldn't find any information about it when I made a search. Perhaps someone remembers this?

About the sound quality, remember that Sound Blaster Pro 2 is only capable of outputting 8-bit sound and only 22 050 Hz in stereo. Also it has much noisier amplifiers and structure than the Gravis Ultrasound.

There's one but, I think most of the MOD-music still used only 8-bit samples. The frequency might still be higher that what SB Pro2 is capable of.

I have lately been playing Pinball Fantasies with both Gravis Ultrasound 3.4 and Sound Blaster AWE32. They sound pretty much equal. I don't remember how bad the Sound Blaster Pro 2 was, I would have to dig one PC from the closed which has one of those in it and do the comparison... when I have some spare time...
Logged
Amigaz
Senior Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 140



View Profile
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2008, 03:13:26 PM »

Hmm... I remember reading somewhere that with Sound Blaster the Pinball Fantasies music would run too slow. It was because of some technical restriction, but I couldn't find any information about it when I made a search. Perhaps someone remembers this?

About the sound quality, remember that Sound Blaster Pro 2 is only capable of outputting 8-bit sound and only 22 050 Hz in stereo. Also it has much noisier amplifiers and structure than the Gravis Ultrasound.

There's one but, I think most of the MOD-music still used only 8-bit samples. The frequency might still be higher that what SB Pro2 is capable of.

I have lately been playing Pinball Fantasies with both Gravis Ultrasound 3.4 and Sound Blaster AWE32. They sound pretty much equal. I don't remember how bad the Sound Blaster Pro 2 was, I would have to dig one PC from the closed which has one of those in it and do the comparison... when I have some spare time...


We can't blame the 8bit and 22 050hz
I've recorded the same samples from my Amiga 3000 which sound chip technology is from the mid 80's and also had 8bit sound an 22 050
Listen to those samples here:
http://sites.google.com/site/jivemaster2008/Home/PD_INTRO_3.ogg?attredirects=0
http://sites.google.com/site/jivemaster2008/Home/PFant_Intro3.ogg?attredirects=0

Very close to the Gus, we can say the Amiga version is the reference version since these games were released first on the Amiga.

The Sound Blaster 16 fails also but the sound is cleared.
I used a CT2230 model:

http://sites.google.com/site/jivemaster2008/Home/PD_INTRO_4.ogg?attredirects=0
http://sites.google.com/site/jivemaster2008/Home/PFant_Intro4.ogg?attredirects=0
Logged
Rhizome
Senior Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 532



View Profile WWW
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2008, 07:12:30 PM »

If I remember correctly, the Sound Blaster cards (except AWE32 and 64) could not play MODs in hardware as the Amiga and GUS because they are limited to 2 channels, so the CPU is actually playing the music.

Amiga = 4 hardware channels
GUS = 32 hardware channels
AWE32/64 = 30 hardware channels (2 for the OPL3 chip)

Paula is actually quite an advanced sound chip - one of the main reasons the demoscene continued onto the Amiga platform.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2008, 07:13:27 PM by Rhizome » Logged
5u3
Senior Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 65



View Profile
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2008, 11:57:10 PM »

It was even worse!

Considering the quality of your samples and the fact that you supplied a GUS sample for PD lets me assume that you're playing one of the more advanced re-releases of Pinball Dreams, which actually has a quite decent MOD player.

The MOD player in the original 1993 version of PD sounds much worse. The game was supposed to run on 286/386sx machines, but this kind of CPU just barely manages to mix a 4-channel MOD at 22 kHz while doing nothing else! In order to keep the game playable at decent frame rates, the developers had to reduce the sample rate even further.
Logged

486 DX4 | 486SP3 | 64MB FPM | S3 Trio64V+ | AWE32 + DB50XG | Ultrasound | SCC-1 | LAPC-I | LPT-DAC
K6-III | P5A | 256MB SDR | Voodoo5 5500 | AWE32 + SCB-55 | Ultrasound PnP
A64 4000+ | AV8 3rd Eye | 2048MB DDR | Radeon 9800SE | ALC658D
Amigaz
Senior Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 140



View Profile
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2008, 07:21:27 AM »

It was even worse!

Considering the quality of your samples and the fact that you supplied a GUS sample for PD lets me assume that you're playing one of the more advanced re-releases of Pinball Dreams, which actually has a quite decent MOD player.

The MOD player in the original 1993 version of PD sounds much worse. The game was supposed to run on 286/386sx machines, but this kind of CPU just barely manages to mix a 4-channel MOD at 22 kHz while doing nothing else! In order to keep the game playable at decent frame rates, the developers had to reduce the sample rate even further.


yeah, I have that version too....the one with Roland LA synth support.
The scrolling is terrible on it too  Tongue

Here's an example how the Gus Classic handled the Pinball Dreams title track
http://sites.google.com/site/jivemaster2008/Home/PD_INTRO_GUS_CLASSIC.ogg?attredirects=0

THR GF1 hadnled the track bit different than the Gus PnP interwave chip  Wink
« Last Edit: November 08, 2008, 10:53:59 AM by Amigaz » Logged
mace
Senior Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 396



View Profile
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2008, 11:11:07 PM »

There is a reason why the demo scene liked the GUS so much, hardware mixing.

For the SB the PC has to interpolate all those samples, and doing that you lose alot of quality.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2008, 11:11:32 PM by mace » Logged


Using in/on my rig now:
MT-32 first gen, CM-64, SC-155, NEC DB60XG, Yamaha FB-01, AWE64 Gold, MPU-IPC-T
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to: