MT-32 compatible games on SC-55

[Unknown2017]

Hi, I am new to this forum and I have some questions. I hope someone can help me here. 

As the subject says I have some questions about games that use MT-32 midi music. I got myself a SC-55 some days ago primarily to enjoy nice midi music from DOS games. There are some games which directly support Sound Canvas or General Midi. With this games everything is just fine. But most older DOS games only support the MT-32 and so I am wondering if I can play them with the MT-32 setting on my SC-55.

I think for most of you it sounds like a stupid question, but I didnt find a good answer on the web so far. What I learned so far is, that the SC-55 has a MT-32 mode, but it cant receive MT-32 sysex messages, is that right?

And so the question is, can I play MT-32 games on my SC-55 in MT-32 mode? All games, or just the ones which dont send sysex messages? And when I play games with sysex messages, what happens then, just doesnt sound it right or else?

I tried for testing Monkey Island 1, ok no Sierra game, but anyway...  In normal mode it sounded really weird, but in MT-32 mode it sounded quite good. Does it mean it doesnt send sysex messages? And how can I see, if a game uses sysex messages? I also wanted to try Larry 1 VGA, but in the setup menu its stated, that it writes some data to the MT-32, so I didnt try because I didnt want to do something wrong.

The last question is, I found a General Midi fix for some old Sierra games, do the supported games run fine on my SC-55 with this fix?

I know, a lot of questions, but I hope someone can answer them.

Greets Markus

[jharris01]

Hi there and welcome to the forums.

Like you figured out the SC-55 does not support MT-32's sysex messaging. This feature is used to send new sound instruments for the MT-32 to use. When this happens, the uploaded instrument temporarily replaces a sound from the MT-32 default instrument list. What instrument gets replaced is arbitrarily chosen by the music composer who created the sysex patch.

When you use a midi device that does not support sysex or the MT-32 instrument set then the game will continue playing the songs as usual. The game is expecting instruments updated by the sysex patch but the midi device will play the default instrument instead. For example if the sysex patch is supposed to replace a piano instrument for a custom trumpet or special effect, then you will hear something very different.

When you run a game that uses the MT-32, it will first upload the sysex patch (usually right after you launch the program). The data upload from the PC to the MT-32 usually takes about 15-20 seconds. During this time you will notice the MT-32's "MIDI MESSAGE" light blink continuously as the sysex message is transmitted.

There are other indicators that sysex transmission is happening. On Sierra games you will see MT-32's LCD display the name of the game (or a humorous message). For example, you will see "King's Quest V" displayed for that game, "Insert Buckazoid" for Space Quest, "Quest Studios" for the MT-32 songs downloaded from this website. Some games will show a blank, empty screen on your monitor while sysex transfer is going on. Other games, like Lucasart's IMUSE games, will give you a progress bar or onscreen message indicating the transfer is taking place. If there is an error during transmission, the MT-32 will display an error message in its LCD screen. You will notice something is wrong.

To make things more complicated, some DOS games don't use any custom sounds, but send the MT-32 a reset message at the beginning of the game. These games should play fine on your SC-55 under MT-32 mode.

Some games created after the adoption of the General MIDI (GM) standard will send the MT-32 a sysex patch that makes it compatible with GM. As far as I know the patch does not upload new instruments. It only rearranges the MT-32 sound set to match GMs. Later Sierra games do this (e.g., Quest for Glory IV). For these games it may be better to use your SC in the default GM mode.

There are some game fixes that will add (or hack) GM support. These are either officially released files or fan made. I would try these files and check if they work for you. With this case you would use your SC in GM mode.

Not too long ago I found a game from Legend Entertainment called "Death Gate". It is the only game I know that specifically supports SC-55's MT-32 set.

To summarize:

+ the SC-55 has a MT-32 mode, but it cant receive MT-32 sysex messages, is that right? 

Yes.

+ And so the question is, can I play MT-32 games on my SC-55 in MT-32 mode?

Some of them.

+ All games, or just the ones which don't send sysex messages?

Only those that use MT-32's default instrument list. These may still send a sysex reset message.

+ When I play games with sysex messages [on my SC-55], what happens then, just doesn't sound it right or else?

It will sound weird because the game will play the songs assuming certain instruments were replaced by the sysex patch. The midi device will play the default instruments instead.

+ For Monkey Island...SC-55 in normal mode it sounded really weird, but in MT-32 mode it sounded quite good. Does it mean it doesn't send sysex messages?

It could mean two things. Maybe Monkey Island I uses the default MT-32 instrument set (no special instruments uploaded by the sysex patch). It could also mean the song still sounds good without the uploaded instruments.

+ I found a General Midi fix for some old Sierra games, do the supported games run fine on my SC-55 with this fix?

Maybe. You will have to test it for yourself to see if it works.

[Great Hierophant]

The Secret of Monkey Island does not use custom instruments, so it will sound very close to a real MT-32 using the SC-55's MT-32 mode.

[BlueMax]

King's Quest 4 is pretty close to basic MT-32, it would work nice.  The Spellcasting 101/201/301 series as well.

Wing Commander I/II sound great if you turn the sound effects OFF!

That's all I can remember....

[Unknown2017]

Thank you very much for the answers! Now I got it I think. 

I know, nothing replaces a real MT-32, but I first will try to play the MT-32 games with my SC-55. When it satisfies me, even when there are wrong sounds, I think I can live with that. If not I will hunt for real MT-32. I think I am right when I say it would be best to have both, a MT-32 and a SC-55, or not?  But its also a question of money and the availibility, not everyday a MT-32 shows up on eBay...

Greets Markus

[Alistair]

Kyrandia 1 works. Not too many games will though.

When it satisfies me, even when there are wrong sounds, I think I can live with that. If not I will hunt for real MT-32.

I give you one day

- Alistair

[BlueMax]

Your best bet is to look for early-generation games where sound card support was almost brand new.  People didn't start programming the MT-32 in advanced ways until a bit later.  Unless you were around for those days, that might be easier said than done.  Wing Commanders 1 & 2 sounded pretty good though... almost BETTER than MT-32... you just missed out on the cool FX - and nothing beats a satisfying BOOOOOMMMmmm when you blow up a capital ship. 

[jharris01]

Remember that Origin slogan "We create headaches!"? Erm I mean, "We create worlds!"? Used to joke about that with friends back then.  The beginning intro of Wing Commander with the orchestra playing was pretty cool.

Here are a few games I know don't use custom instrument patches and thought sounded good. Game quality not considered:

Conan the Cimmerian
David Wolf: Secret Agent
Deathtrack
Star Trek: 25th Anniversary

[endre1952]

Boy did I hate my SCC-1 for not offering adequate MT-32 emulation.

I still think the best module for games is the CM-32L. I can't find any MT-32 compatible games that sound really wrong with that module. On the other hand, several games (probably composed for an LAPC-I card) will not work properly with the MT-32.

Anyway, here are some games I thought sounded good on my SCC-1 (SC-55 on a card):

Prehistorik
Star Control
Face Off
Leisure Suit Larry 2
A-10 Tank Killer (1989 version)
Amazon: Guardians of Eden
Altered Destiny
Les Manley: Search for the King
Summer Challenge
Winter Challenge
Test Drive 3
Grand Prix Unlimited

[Unknown2017]

I give you one day Wink

- Alistair

Hi again! Ok, it took more than one day for me to realise that the MT-32 mode of my SC-55 doesnt really satisfy me. 

Now I got myself a MT-32 too for a fair price I think. But know some new questions come to my mind. Hope you can help me again...

As I stated before, I have a SC-55 too, now I dont really know how I should wire the two modules together with my PC. From the MIDI-side its no problem, I have a Joystick/Midi-adapter from my SB16 going into the MIDI-in from my SC-55 and from the MIDI-through a MIDI-cable in the MIDI-in of my MT-32. Thats working fine... Now the problematic part, the sound outputs. I never saw a MT-32 in real before and was a little "shocked" that it has no cinch-outputs. I didnt buy cables for that yet and just wanted to ask if this cable will work: http://www.thomann.de/gb/the_sssnake_spr2015.htm

And now the biggest problem, with the two Roland modules and the sound from my SB16 I have 3 different audio sources, how to mix it without always plugging the cables out of one and in the other Roland? I was thinking about two alternatives. Buy a 3-way mixer and mix the SB16 output with either the SC-55 or the MT-32 output. My second thought was, buy a 2-way switch and switch between the two Rolands and put it into the line-in off my SB16. But both solutions have a problem for me, for the first alternative, what a mixer should I buy? I only found really expensive DJ-Mixer which would work, but I dont want to spend so much money for that. Concerning the second alternative I dont know how to enable the line-in of my SB16 under DOS so it will play the sounds from the SB AND the music coming in at the line-in.

How do you manage that? Do you have any other solutions I didnt think off?

My last question is, I read the article at Wikipedia about the MT-32 and found out I got a MT-32 from the first generation with a revision 1 PCB, a one without the headphone jack. Will I face any problems with certain games with this revision?

A last thing about the MT-32 mode on the SC-55:

Not too long ago I found a game from Legend Entertainment called "Death Gate". It is the only game I know that specifically supports SC-55's MT-32 set.

I found another game which directly supports that mode, ok not really the same, it supports the LAPC-I mode of the SCC-1, but its almost the same, only the internal cards and not the external modules. Its "Eye of the Beholder 3".

I know that not all questions really belong into the Sound Canvas category, but I didnt want to start a new thread, hope you dont mind.

I hope you can help me again with my problems.

Greets Markus

[jharris01]

if this cable will work: http://www.thomann.de/gb/the_sssnake_spr2015.htm

Yes. You can also use a pair of female RCA to 1/4” male phono adapters. (http://tinyurl.com/phono2rca)

How do you manage that? Do you have any other solutions I didnt think off?

All you got to do is set the SC-55 on mute (press ALL + MUTE on the SC's panel). The SC will keep quiet but will continue to pass midi data to the MT32. The mute is not for volume so you will still be able to hear.

[ebondefender]

Hey guys,

Not to beat a dead thread with an old horse (or something to that effect,) but I recently just purchased an SC-55 which I would like to "daisy chain" to my MT-32. I've had the MT-32 for a few years and I love it. The MT-32 I have had wired up to my old Dell Optiplex Gs with an ancient joystick port. I also tried hooking it up to my Alienware M11x laptop with a nice hacked "Midi Selector" used in Vista/Win7. That sounded awesome on DosBox!

Now my question is this: when hooking up the midi cables to "thru," do I want to have it like this?

PC--->SC-55--->MT-32?
or
PC--->MT-32--->SC-55?

Seeing as how I own both an actual MT-32 as well as a Sound Canvas, I didn't think I'd need that "MT-32" mode on the Canvas. Sorry if this sounds a little noobish. I have been away from the realm of old computers for a while and sometimes need a refresher. Thanks for any info!

[rftl]

Now my question is this: when hooking up the midi cables to "thru," do I want to have it like this?

PC--->SC-55--->MT-32?
or
PC--->MT-32--->SC-55?

It's your choice.

But the Thru device has to be turned on.
So the best choice is...

If you use different audio cables for each device.
PC--->Most used Synth--->Other device
So you don't have to turn on you secondary device for your primary synth.

If you use the SC-55 audio thru (like in the OP)
PC--->SC-55--->MT32
Because you have to power on the SC, every time you use a synth. But the MT only for MT use.

[ebondefender]

Cool. Thanks for the info. I have cooky situation- my laptop (Windows 7 arrgh) detects my MT-32 when hooked up to my usb to MIDI cable, but the SC-55 doesn't. I can send sysex data to the MT-32 and play games like Thexder 2, Sierra stuff, etc. under Dosbox no problem. But all I get on the Sound Canvas is a constant green "MIDI-IN" flashing light, instead of the two in-out lights when sound data is transmitted. Hmf. I think I may try hooking it up to my good ol' Dell Optiplex with a joystick/game port cable and see if that works.

oh and I get around the Windows-7-doesn't-like-direct-music problem with a nice program called "Vista MIDI selector." Works on Win7 too.

[ebondefender]

Got it working! Thanks  USB port hates me for some reason.