CM-32L/LAPC-I Sound Effects Substitute

[Great Hierophant]

Suppose you had an MT-32 and a SC-55 and you had a game that utilized the CM-32L/LAPC-I's sound effects.  The SC-55 has the extra sound effects, but does not handle custom sound patches. 

Could you tell the MT-32 to turn off its Rhythm parts and the SC-55 (initialized in the MT-32 mode) to turn off its Parts 2-9?  Here are the issues that I would like to explore:

1.  Would games send messages to reverse your channel on/off instructions?

2.  Would a comparison of playing the rhythm sounds and sound effects on the MT-32 and the SC-55 display major differences?

3.  Do games write custom rhythm sounds or sound effects to the Rhythm Part which the SC-55 would not be able to play?

4.  Can games utilize sound effects on any other Part? 

[Mau1wurf1977]

3.  Do games write custom rhythm sounds or sound effects to the Rhythm Part which the SC-55 would not be able to play?

Interesting topic, and I am hoping this discussion will get me a better understanding of how MT-32 and compatibles work.

My understanding is that partials are the smallest building block for sounds. And these sound effects of the CM-32L also consist of partials.

So why couldn't they just create these sound effects on a MT-32 simply by using the partials used to make up a sound effect on a CM-32L? Maybe the CM-32L came with partials missing on the MT-32?

I am assuming that when you componse on a MT-32 or CM-32L you do have access to these partials and can use them to build your own sounds right?

[Alistair]

The SC-55 has a lot of good sound effects, what would be even more interesting would be using a high end GS or ED or XG device, like the SC-8820 for example, which has lasers, explosions, thunder, lightning, and much much much more.

Although SC-55 GS has all of those I mentioned.

At any rate, I'm sure you could map just about any CM/LA SFX to some SC-55 sound. Just how successful some of those would be is the point.

- Alistair

[Mau1wurf1977]

Hmmm I just had a thought...

Instead of writing a MT-32 emulator...

How about we approach this through profiles?

So per game we simply substitute the MT-32 and compatibles sound with another sound from GM / GS? You simply configure the synth before you play each game?

As long as MT-32 and compatible games didn't "rearrange" the unit half way through the game this should work quite well, would it not?

Sure it would take a bit of effort to create a profile per game, but there are only so many games from that era, so its a project that is doable...

EDIT: A list of these effects can be found in the CM-32L owners manual on page 13: http://media.rolandus.com/manuals/CM-32L_OM.pdf

[Salient]

As long as MT-32 and compatible games didn't "rearrange" the unit half way through the game this should work quite well, would it not?

I know at least one game that DOES change the sounds during the game; Lollypop.
I am not sure if there are any others do the same though.

[Mau1wurf1977]

Well if even you only know a single game that's a good sign   

[Cloudschatze]

1.  Would games send messages to reverse your channel on/off instructions?

They can. Some even re-map from MIDI channels 2 - 9 to 1 - 8.

2.  Would a comparison of playing the rhythm sounds and sound effects on the MT-32 and the SC-55 display major differences?

Yes

3.  Do games write custom rhythm sounds or sound effects to the Rhythm Part which the SC-55 would not be able to play?

If there are any changes to the default note-mapping, the SC-55 playback is going to be wrong. With the MT-32 and compatibles, the Rhythm Part note-mapping is completely definable - any timbre (i, r) to any key.

4.  Can games utilize sound effects on any other Part?

Yes

So why couldn't they just create these sound effects on a MT-32 simply by using the partials used to make up a sound effect on a CM-32L? Maybe the CM-32L came with partials missing on the MT-32?

The CM-32, et al., contain an additional bank of 128 PCM waveforms not present in the MT-32, many of which are used in the additional sound-effect timbres. These waveforms are poorly documented (Roland Japan even lacks a list of the waveform names), but they are certainly available for selection and use.

[Mau1wurf1977]

The CM-32, et al., contain an additional bank of 128 PCM waveforms not present in the MT-32

I see!

[Cloudschatze]

The sound-effects only utilize 34 of the additional 128 PCM samples in Bank 2. I wouldn't have expected that they'd all be used, since a number of them are simply loops of the one-shot waveforms, as mentioned in this thread. What is interesting (or disappointing, rather) is that the waveforms in the 59 - 128 range were likely never used, or even heard, by anyone.

[Mau1wurf1977]

The sound-effects only utilize 34 of the additional 128 PCM samples in Bank 2.

EDIT: I just read RECORDING MUSIC FROM CLASSIC SIERRA GAMES and it cleared things up a lot.

Thanks Tom! Great read...

[NewRisingSUn]

What is interesting (or disappointing, rather) is that the waveforms in the 59 - 128 range were likely never used, or even heard, by anyone.

I went through the waveforms myself, and as you pointed out, the 59-99 range is just made up of jams. The samples at 100+ are not new samples, but merely earlier samples with the first half second or so skipped.

[Cloudschatze]

The samples at 100+ are not new samples, but merely earlier samples with the first half second or so skipped.

Hmm. Sustain samples? Do you happen to recall if they loop? (I can check later...)

So, looking at that old thread... I'm not sure why I ever thought this, and you probably arrived at the same conclusion, but the CM-series and Baby-D synths definitely do not share the exact same set of waveforms.

[NewRisingSUn]

No, they're attack samples, just missing half of the attack. And no looping.

[Cloudschatze]

No, they're attack samples, just missing half of the attack. And no looping.

I did a comparison with the D-10, and these waveforms, while different, have been edited similarly to those in the D-10/110's group of "Decay Sounds". I'm assuming that's what they likely are...