Queries about XG

[Alistair]

Well, I'm tired of not having XG as an option.

I was thinking of buying a copy of SYXG50, but I was wondering exactly how good it is?

And what's the XG emulation of my Roland ED Sound Canvas like? I know it has some Yamaha instruments in there, and plays XG files back pretty well, though I don't know how close to the 'real thing' (Someday I'll get a Waveforce, but not for a bit yet- money issues, still broke from my ED SC.).
EDIT: Also, how do I access XG tones? Is it through a controller 32 or something?

Any advice/wisdom would be appreciated.

Regards,
- Alistair

[Ari]

If you can put up a demo of your ED's XG emulation, I'll be able to tell you how good it is.
The S-YXG50 is a pretty decent software synth, but it's not as good as the real thing. It's much better than the VSC compared to an SC-55, but still...

[DrJ]

I love my SW60XG...

Ari's right. The software emulation is quite good, but not as good as the original.. Try and get a DB50XG or a stand-alone card like the SW60XG..

[Danny]

I compared SYXG50 to my DB50XG some.  The SYXG50 only uses a 2MB sample set if I remember vs. the DB50XGs 4MB.  While balancing is pretty much spot on, the quality of the instruments are disappointing at times and the DSPs don't really compare to the hardware.  But it is better than no XG at all.

[HondaSiR]

If you can afford it Alistair, go for the SW1000XG...it may not be cheap but its not as expensive as your Sound Canvas module. It packs a whopping 20MB of pure unadulterated MIDI instruments, some of them I've never heard from, including a Coffin Kit...whatever that is (I heard a seller in ebay bragging about it).

[Alistair]

It sounds weird to hear 'whopping 20 MB', when soundfonts and gigasamples can be over 100 MB's. But no, I can't afford it, Honda.. Roland ED module cleaned me out. Only just enough to take a short vacation next week. I'll need to get another job in the holidays after Uni's out for the year..

XG isn't essential to me in the sense that I need it. But if my mission statement is to use the best quality instruments, then I suppose diversification in my equipment is essential. Hmm.

Thanks for the information, everyone. Ari, what's a good QuestStudios XG file to record and upload?

- Alistair

[Ari]

I'd go for Heart of China Finale. One of the best XG conversions made here.

[moturimi1]

I also have the SC-8850. The XG compatibility isn't that good. Most XG sounds are not availible. and of cource the sounds are different. But it's OK for me.
I once had a MU50, and there's a great difference between the real XG and the SC emulation.

But why not buying a Yamaha Waveforce XG PCI Card? I don't meen a SW1000XG. Just an ordinary Waveforce with 2 MB RAM. I sounds a bit better than the softsynth and not that diffrent from the DB50XG/MU50.

[Ari]

I've got both a WF192XG and a SW60XG, and there is a notable difference, especially in terms of handeling sysex and stuff. The WF192XG may be better than the SoftSynth, but not a whole lot better.

[Alistair]

Well, just so we have a comparison, I recorded the full finale themes from HOC, on Ari's advice. Unlike Tom's XG MP3, I haven't edited it, so bear with me in its' 4 (or thereabouts) MB goodness.

http://www.smc.sq7.org/miscfile/hocfinedxg.ogg

From the Roland ED Sound Canvas-8850's XG tones; 'Heart of China- Finale'.

- Alistair

[shad0wfax]

I once had a DB50XG doughterboard, and definitely is worth the price because it gave quite good sound quality for not so much money. So if you can get one (or a stand-alone SW60XG or, even better, a SW1000XG) for a reasonable price, get it.

I sold it (with many other equipment) time ago for getting a bit of money for a Roland RD-170 stage piano/controller. I didn't use the card so much and I also wanted to get a newer PC, with no ISA slots (so I couldn't use the DB50XG anyway together with my ISA card).

I've tried yamaha's softsynth and I must confess that, to my ears, is close to the real thing (at least on my Terratec DMX 6 fire). It laks a bit of definition and "purity" compared to the original, and it's a bit noisy in higher frequences, but in the mix it fits well. Anyway, in general terms I don't like yamaha's sound very much, because I find it too "thin" and quite unreal when using "acoustic" sounds. In this respect, I'm totally a Roland man. But the yamaha's effects part is excellent. The DSP's are really great. But regarding your original question, in my opinion you'll get a close idea of how XG sounds like if you try the softsynth.

[HondaSiR]

Well I've just finished downloading and hearing the HOC finale as recorded from Alistair's Roland ED in XG emulation...frankly, I find it weak. The percussion part is good but the majority of the instruments sound soft, specially the horns. It's probably not the fault of the Roland module but of its "weak" XG emulation.  But this is just my opinion...What would make a great comparison is hearing a "real" XG device play that same track (I'd really, really like to hear it from the SW1000XG).

[Ari]

I tend to agree, though I find even the percussion track a little weak and failing utterly to convey the effect of a train "chugging" as well. The "French Horn 2" sounds extremely synthy.
Even the SynthBrass1 - a GM instrument, doesn't sound right.

All in all, I think you're better off with the SoftSynth.

[Alistair]

Thanks for the responses, guys. That song doesn't exactly leap off the page at me, not my favourite Sierra piece. In fact, I'd prefer most Dynamix game scores to that one.
But as a reference point for XG, good example. I could hear the difference in basses as well.

Honda; Tom's got a XG recording (I forget which device) on the MP3 pages.

- Alistair

[HondaSiR]

Honda; Tom's got a XG recording (I forget which device) on the MP3 pages.

- Alistair

The recording was done on a Yamaha WF192XG PCI card (same sounds as my former Yamaha PCI YMF744-BV)...and I am not impressed with it's XG sound output, the Roland 8850's XG emulation even sounds better to my ears. I bet that a "real" XG device such as a DB50XG, SW60XG or an SW1000XG can yield the best XG results.

[Alistair]

Ah, right..

All QuestStudios's XG files are arranged for a WaveForce, aren't they?

What's the SW1000XG got over the WaveForce?

- Alistair

[HondaSiR]

All QuestStudios's XG files are arranged for a WaveForce, aren't they?

What's the SW1000XG got over the WaveForce?- Alistair

Well the XG files in QuestStudios were recorded from WaveForce devices. The problem is, even these XG sound cards differ in MIDI playback capabilities (and current price range).  

The DB50XG and SW60XG have far superior MIDI playback power when compared to the WF192XG (probably because the later has only 2 MEGS of sampled instruments as compared to the former's on board 4 MEGS).  That's only a difference of 2 MEGS.

How about the SW1000XG? It has 20 MEGS of onboard samples. When compared to the already "mighty" DB50XG or SW60XG, there's the whopping difference of 16 MEGS! Granting that memory size may not always be better, I don't think the SW1000XG got its high price tag from the huge memory alone. If people are willing to pay $300.00 and beyond for this card, it must be for its MIDI output since that is the card's selling point, right? The DB50XG's current value nowadays is "only" around $75.00. Again, that's a huge difference of $225.00.

In the end, the question to ask is: What does this PCI sound card (note: PCI, not sound module) has to offer that makes it worthy of its sky high price tag. Anybody's guess is as good as mine.

[Ari]

The only user around here I know has (or had) an SW1000XG is Christoph Sachal, but he hasn't been here for years. There's the Quest For Glory theme in the Special Arrangements page, which was partially composed with the SW1000XG card, but also with all kinds of other samplers, so it's not a very good example.

[Alistair]

Love that QFG piece by Sachal. But then again, I love every piece of his.

Anyway.. is there such thing as a Yamaha XG sound module? I could've sworn I'd heard of one (I'm a Roland man, Yamaha is an ignorant field of mine).

- Alistair

[Danny]

Yes, Yamaha XG modules are the MU series.  I believe the DB50/SW60XG equivalent is the MU10.  Their logic behind the naming scheme isn't always apparent, but then again Roland has their quirks, SCB-55/SCD-15 for example.