I was referring for QuestStudios' benefit, not yours.

- Alistair

How is faster and easier than Windows, exactly? I don't mean to be rude, I'm just fascinated at how DOS could be quicker in terms of editing a MIDI.

- Alistair

How fun is it to see 'program manager' again.

I never use DOS at all, though, these days. What exactly do you use it for Tom?

And ****.. I saw that Yamaha SpG driver somewhee not long ago. It's driving me insane about where to find it. I'm sure Google could be of some help.

- Alistair

Cheers for the OGG.

And I think that's a bloody great idea, Ari. PQ2 title would make another good MT-32/GS/XG comparison. Though, I don't know how good XG's sax, koto and the like is. Or how the clean guitar and drums would emulate the MT-32. Would be cool to hear, though.

- Alistair

I assume you're referring to 'En Route to Ad Avis', Kuseph.. I know it's in the QS MIDI file. Why wouldn't it be on the CD?

Checking my resources, I see it's part of track 26 on the CD.

- Alistair

I read this in isolation and wondered for a while where you were going with this.

On GK, someone once recorded the QuestStudios GK1GM complete soundtrack MIDI with the SYXG50 softsynth. Some tracks were really good; alternatively most tracks were really poor. I suppose you actually have to alter General MIDI files to be 'eXtended General MIDI' files. I'll learn someday.

But it would be nice if someone could record the Revolver for me, even if it's a temporary upload. And there is barely any PQ2 music on this site (though we've discussed that many, many moons ago) so another digital file would be nice.
Personally, I love the theme (one of my favourites) and would basically like a proper XG comparison for my MT-32 recording.

- Alistair

Are we talking about digital RCA outputs at the moment, or what?

- Alistair

First of all:


Not at all! GS is *very* useful. There's two types, SC-55 GS, and ED GS. Quite different things.
One main usefulness of GS (both types) is that they contain the default MT-32 patch maps. Most MT-32 music files have at least one instrument from the default patch map and so being able to use the *exact* MT-32 instrument (more or less) is intensely helpful. Tom's been using 'Doctor Solo' in his Willy Beamish conversions recently, for example.


My apologies, Ari. I am simply sick and tired of having things I know to be factual knocked back by someone who has little or no knowledge of the topic.

Thanks for the revolver track, I've gotta check this one out.


And if you read my original post Zemus, you wouldn't have made this redundant post. My point was that although the conversion is 'wrong', Holmes couldn't possibly convert it 'correctly'. The polyphony won't handle all the instruments of 'Wolfgang'! Thus, the MT-32 file sounds way poor in places. The guitar track is largely absent, for example.


Thanks, I think. But seriously, again- I hate being bashed when I know what I'm talking about. I've worked with Sierra music for a lot longer (and in a lot more depth, I might add) than the likes of Zemus/Ari Stone.

Anyways, back to the point- in my opinion, QFGIII/IV are two examples of *good* MT-32 scores in a SC-55 game. QFG4 was very well converted for the most part. Hodges even converted panflutes to flutes! Noone else bothered, leaving it as 'Sticky1' on the MT-32. Helm converted pretty well, too. Most QFG3 tracks are alright on a MT-32.
Though, I disagree with Tom about GK too. It was rather poor. A lot of tracks aren't properly converted. I guess Holmes was told to forget about harder MT-32 conversions. He didn't even like working with the SC-55, from what I've read. The digital stuff on the CD version is from a Proteus synth, apparently.
KQ7/SQ6 are rubbish on the MT-32. No effort whatsoever. If they'd made new patch banks, put effort.. who knows. I'm sure the scores could be recreated for the MT-32. I'll do it some day. I will for SQ5 soon, too. Always hated the MT score for that one.
Again I could quote Rudy Helm who told me that composers at that era (around 1992) were told to compose for the SC-55 and provide 'limited capabilities' for the MT-32. Rudy hated dumbing down, and he wanted to use the 55's GS capabilities, at any rate. But that's another story.


I disagree with that one as well. KQ7 uses 'Pan Flute' for the SC-55. As it's not converted, it becoems 'Sticky1' on the Roland MT-32. That's wrong, surely!
To use the relevant example of 'Wolfgang Ritter', I seem to remember the MT using a piccolo for a shakuhachi. The saw wave became 'GX-1 horns', and the guitar went missing. Tom subsequently used these poorly converted instruments for an XG version, which is my point. Either use the SC-55 version, or stick XG converting to proper MT-32 support games.

For the most part however, I love Tom's XG work. Colonel's Bequest sounds lovely with XG tracks, I once had (upon a time) the XG track from some Sierra Soundtracks Volume CD of 'Tulane'. (A friend sent me the file.) But that was back in the days of my AWE32. Wow, that'd be 1998, 99 or something.

Hey, ever going to upload those CD's Tom? I'd love pretty much every track from those CD's.

And on a final unrelated note: What's with Inca, the soundtrack CD? Did that game even have GM support, or did you resequence Adlib tracks for the SC-55?

- Alistair

Two questions:

Firstly, can someone tell me the benefits of having a CM-500?

Secondly, when's the SQ4CD contest gonna happen, Tom? And when's plans for it's uploading? I'd much prefer that (downloaded OGG's) over a CD for myself, personally.
(I enter the contest for fun, as anyone does.)

- Alistair

The Simbani sequence- keep trying it. Eventually you can get past it. It randomly shuts down your game. Trust me.

But we're getting off-topic, even for me. ;P

- Alistair

Don't be a smartarse- it's just a poor conversion. The MT-32 file is rubbish for the track. The instruments are wrong (Holmes didn't convert it properly) which I attribute mostly due to the fact that the MT-32's polyphony probably couldn't handle the SC-55 track. (E.g. the guitar only gets 2 notes in every loop, whereas for the SC it's always playing)

So converting a redundant MT-32 music file for XG is obviously a waste of time. It ain't gonna magically sound 'good' on some WaveForce compatible sound card or MU module.

I may as well convert some KQ7 or SQ5 MT-32 file which has the wrong instruments from Sierra's dumb-down (i.e. a SC-55 piece dumbed down for the MT-32) to XG.
I already said in my last post that XG's real use was for *MT-32* scores. It has no use converting SC-55 scores dumbed down for the MT-32 (though some SC-55 scores with decent MT-32 support might qualify).

Well said, Tom. I certainly believe there's a place for XG. As you pointed out, where we can come close to the original MT-32 sequence, it's useful to do!

- Alistair

If you're referring to the Simbani initiation ritual, NewRisingSun's timer fixes probably sort it out. If not, you can get past it in-game anyway..
Certainly that's a poor reason to remake it. You may as well request a QFG4 remake.

- Alistair

I voted for 'MT-32 or compatible and SC-88 or SC-88xx or similar'.

Though, as well as a Roland MT-32 and a Roland ED Sound Canvas 8850 I run:
- Roland Virtual Sound Canvas
- Yamaha SYXG50
- Sound Blaster AWE32
- Sound Blaster Live!
- Sound Blaster Audigy 2

Might even be something else, but maybe not. I don't use my SC-55 any more.

- Alistair

I doubt Falcom composed it for the MT-32; why would Allen/Atesalp have to convert for Sierra, then? Obviously they didn't, and composed it for FM synthesis.

- Alistair

I do agree with Ivar for the most part; XG is quite redundant. Though if it can give a 'close to the MT-32' track feel then it's valuable (though why conversions like 'Wolfgang Ritter' exist, I have no idea. Should be removed. You shouldn't convert a song that's designed for the SC-55 and plays back poorly on the MT-32, for XG.).

I need to add the XG string to my proverbial bow; I've (more or less) got my head around the intricacies of the SC/ED, and as Tom's said before (to paraphrase), "if the goal is to get the highest quality digital audio, then we must look at all the options". I'm pretty sure it was him who said that, anyway.

XG's main use, for my money, is SCI0 MT-32 game scores converted. That is, games 1990 and earlier (though some SCI1 games from '91 as well, and a couple from 92-95). The good MT-32 tunes can be translated to something closer than under the SC-55. XG's GM is possibly a 'fairer General MIDI conversion' than Roland's Sound Canvases give. But I don't *really* know; I'm trying to work out from what I've heard.

- Alistair

This logic doesn't always follow.. what about Sorcerian? The MT-32 tracks are from the original PC-88 game, but vastly improved and Adlib doesn't even compare. I ran both with my AWE32 on my old PC (using the AWE32 as an OPL2/3 and as a MPU-401 alternatively) and definitely the game sounds better 'orchestrated'. I've always found that with 'emotional' synth, it usually sounds better orchestrated than in 'raw' format.

 
Yep, I second that. I love the LSL3 'SierraLand' comparison page. Be good to hear it expanded.


I've got some details in an old catalogue which I will dig out if requested, but otherwise I asked the same question about 6 weeks ago. Here's the relevant thread at the SQ.Net forums:
http://forum.spacequest.net/viewtopic.php?t=603&start=15


Which is a good reason, as Tom alluded to, not to create such a section in the first place. But I think we're reading way too much into this at any rate. Boogeyman never requested QS become Adlib, I'd attribute his Adlib recordings for offer being related more to ignorance about Roland devices being the standard for Sierra compositions than actual faith in the Adlib music itself. You'd think it was alright if you'd never heard a MT-32 or Sound Canvas piece (which most KQ7 users *would* have, or at least a GM piece, close enough).

The issue here for me is that in no way would I consider a KQ7 soundtrack recorded from anything except Roland devices as worthy of my ears. (As the odds of someone recording it fom XG or a live orchestra are rather minimal.) I could guess this guy was in no way going to produce either of the desired results.
I was enjoying recording from this game, it's fun to try and emulate Tom's success with orchestrating KQ6, for KQ7. I can't do KQ6, since Tom's covered it quite nicely, but KQ7 I can.
And there's a really good spread of music types in KQ7.
I'm sure people who want KQ7's music will be pleased when I finish recording later this year. Won't be much deviated from the SC-55 score, with MT-32 and ED thrown in for the bargain (same as I handle all SC-55 soundtracks for soundtrack CD's).

- Alistair

I had a listen earlier.
And ironically, a recording of your old XG file was on one of the CD's I listened to on the way home from Uni today!

The beginning is much improved now. I like the bell. The bass is not a good conversion; and the middle isn't brilliant, though one or two bits are better than the MT sequence.

But the original file- The ending is every bit as good as the MT-32 sequence, quite similar. I liked it better from the main part of the theme onwards! (More than the current recording, that is.)

- Alistair

EDIT: I'm going to take you up on the XG recording.. Hmm. How about a track like.. Police Quest II, "The Revolver"? Should be relatively simple, and I like XG's synth brasses. I find them oh-so-similar to the MT's.

P.S. By the way, Tom, do you use XG much, or have you found it redundant compared to your ED sounds now that you have a 8820?

I seem to remember Tom converting 'DoctorSolo' to a Saw Wave patch (variation 13?) called 'SequencedSaw'..

And was there a choir in the original version of this file? I don't remember.

I'd better check this one out. I remember when you uploaded the previous one.. it was about 18 months ago!

- Alistair

Because I still haven't learned how to do it myself. (Note that I could probably learn Hall 2, and indeed all SC SysEx pretty easily, but I just need to sit down and do it. And have had absolutely no time as of late.)

And who uploaded the 2 Guys?

By the way, I've been checking the 'What's New' page every day. It brings back old, old memories. From before I even posted on this forum.. feels good.

The 'Backyard' track was a real 'QuestStudios' feeling conversion. The ending was also characteristically 'Tom'. I think you're back in the zone, which is great new for all us fans. Can't wait to hear projects like QFG2VGA.

- Alistair

Two ED files, though you'll have to edit them to meet the 'QuestStudios standards' (i.e. put information in, and SysEx) if you do indeed feel like hosting 'em.

By the way, I just noticed. Definitely you've lost something- the actual file for 'Carbuncle' is missing from the WB page, and you ended up renaming 'Carbuncle Park' as 'Carbuncle'. Carbuncle was indeed wb7gm.mid, but Park was wb8gm.mid. You must've got confused.
(Park was the 'wbed7' file you recorded in ED and OGG format recently.)
The Park's files themselves are now lost from the WB page, and subsequently you've 'misnamed' files, so things don't add up.
(Fun moving your pages around, huh? )

My ED versions correspond to the correct filenames.

http://smc.sq7.org/miscfile/WBED7.MID ('Carbuncle', or 'The Map')
http://smc.sq7.org/miscfile/WBED12.MID ('The Doctor Is In')

They should be compatible with 88Pro devices. I'm not exactly sure as to the extent of compatibility for 88 or 88Pro, though, because my SC device is being used by someone else and it only just occured now to me to check.

Regards,
- Alistair