Anyone interested in Apple IIgs AGI music?

[Cloudschatze]

Kaminari,

I was correcting the description of the DOC as an FM chip.

Speaking of MIDI though...

"There are two types of SOUND resources in the IIgs AGI games: PCM samples (used for sound effects) and MIDI sequences." - AGIDEV

I believe that the MIDI processing is accomplished via software, through the IIGS MIDI toolsets, as the chip itself does not appear to be directly MIDI controllable (from anything I've read). Through the use of a sequencer (i.e. SynthLab), interface, and MIDI controller, the IIGS becomes usable as a sort of low-fidelity performance instrument - some of the string sounds being interestingly unique.

Aside from the 64kb RAM, the Ensoniq DOC looks very similar to a Gravis Ultrasound.

[Kaminari]

My bad, Cloudschatze. Thanks for the great info. I didn't think of the DOC as a predecessor of the GUS, but both core chipsets coming from E-MU/Ensoniq, it makes much sense. I better understand your reference to 'wavetable' now. Seems like the DOC really had untapped capabilities!

[Maxor127]

So the Amiga versions sound like this too?  I tried the Amiga versions of AGI games on UAE but all I heard were typical pc speaker beeps and boops for sound.  Are there special versions that have better sound or is there some special setting?  As far as I know, I have everything emulated 100%.  I'm kind of obsessed with finding the best versions of games on multiple platforms.

[Great Hierophant]

So the Amiga versions sound like this too? I tried the Amiga versions of AGI games on UAE but all I heard were typical pc speaker beeps and boops for sound. Are there special versions that have better sound or is there some special setting? As far as I know, I have everything emulated 100%. I'm kind of obsessed with finding the best versions of games on multiple platforms.

No, the Amiga versions sound very close to the PC/Tandy and Atari ST versions.

[NewRisingSUn]

There's harmony in the notes and it doesn't give that out-of-tune effect on the last note

The out of tune effect on the last note in KQ3's intro tune is actually a bug both in NAGI and AGISB; a real Tandy doesn't sound like that.

[BlueMax]

AIEE!!  I can't believe I missed this AWESOME thread!

I *NEED* to hear that Thexder track which seems to be missing!

For those who didn't know, the AppleIIGS's audio chip was bought and adapted slightly to become the *drum roll* Gravis Ultrasound!  Exact same technology and principal - MOD-style tracker music!

All the IIgs really needed was more audio RAM and it could have been all the more impressive!  It should have been included in the Macs instead of dumped like a moldy tangerine - but that allowed the GUS to come to be!  

[Lytton]

I was raised on IIgs Sierra games.     It was a big shock to me when I later played the PC versions and found that they sounded like crap.

However, I still remember the crushing disappointment when I read in the Sierra magazine that starting with KQ5 they would no longer be making games for IIgs.  Being about 9 years old at the time, I read that article over and over again, hoping that eventually the words would change, or something.  Somehow it didn't really occur to me that, rather than mourning, I could have just hoped to get a PC one day.  And obviously I did.

Anyway, enough memories.  What I came to say is that I actually still have my IIgs around somewhere, (Long ago my parents wanted to throw it away, but I wouldn't allow it.) and if I can get it running, I'd love to make good, direct recordings of all of these games and share them.

I just can't stand to play the IBM versions of these games with that horrible PC speaker, after playing the IIgs versions that had great music and sound effects and all.  And unfortunately, IIgs emulation still has quite a way to go.  Music tends to have problems, as does joystick support.

[Tom]

It was a big shock to me when I later played the PC versions and found that they sounded like crap.

That's probably because Sierra games were designed to be played using a PC sound card or sound module, not the PC's speaker...except for the very early games.

[Great Hierophant]

However, I still remember the crushing disappointment when I read in the Sierra magazine that starting with KQ5 they would no longer be making games for IIgs. Being about 9 years old at the time, I read that article over and over again, hoping that eventually the words would change, or something. Somehow it didn't really occur to me that, rather than mourning, I could have just hoped to get a PC one day. And obviously I did.

Sierra stopped porting games to the IIgs when King's Quest 4, not 5, was released (except for Thexder and Silpheed.)

I just can't stand to play the IBM versions of these games with that horrible PC speaker, after playing the IIgs versions that had great music and sound effects and all.

The music sounded better if you played them on a Tandy 1000, which had a three-voice chip.  It can be emulated without difficulty these days.

[the_doctor]

The music sounded better if you played them on a Tandy 1000, which had a three-voice chip.  It can be emulated without difficulty these days.

That's what I grew up with ... Tandy 1000 SX ... and I was so disappointed with DosBOX until I discovered the Tandy emulation option ... I used that to record the music I got from each of my older pre-VGA&SB games (usually just the opening credits for each game) ...

I'd be interested to hear the IIgs versions ... maybe we need a special folder for just game opening themes in each machine, starting from PC Speaker (HAHA) to Tandy to IIgs to Mac to Amiga to various sound cards.  I'd be glad to turn over my Tandy ones if they'd pass the ears of all here.

[BlueMax]

I was a Tandy 1000SX user too!  

But the 3-voice Tandy chip had NOTHING on the IIgs!  Those examples that are stll active prove it.  The polyphony was several times greater (16 voices I believe) and SAMPLE based!  It was the precursor to the Gravis Ultrasound for the PC.  

Only AGS games were out for IIgs, meaning PC equivalents would never have better sound than Tandy 1000, which is inferior in comparison.

[Great Hierophant]

Only AGS games were out for IIgs, meaning PC equivalents would never have better sound than Tandy 1000, which is inferior in comparison.

Yikes, lets parcel that statement out.  For Sound Hardware, Apple IIgs > Tandy 1000 > PC Speaker.  Sierra only released its AGI games forn the IIgs, even though the Apple IIgs could run SCI games with some optimization.  The AGI engine allowed only for a PC Speaker (One channel) or a Tandy 1000 Sound Chip (three channels).  When the games were ported, they were designed to run on the native system's hardware.  While the music and sound effects on the Atart ST, Amiga and presumably Macintosh ports sound very similar to the PC versions, the Apple IIgs is vastly better.

[NewRisingSUn]

I never understood though why Sierra didn't improve the Amiga AGIs the same way they improved the IIgs. After all, the Amiga is sample-based as well.

[Lytton]

That's probably because Sierra games were designed to be played using a PC sound card or sound module, not the PC's speaker...except for the very early games.

I am talking about the very early games.  With only a couple of exceptions (those listed below), the only games that were even released for IIgs were the ones that did not support any kind of sound module on the PC version.

Sierra stopped porting games to the IIgs when King's Quest 4, not 5, was released (except for Thexder and Silpheed.)

Sorry, I probably worded that sentence incorrectly.  I do know that KQ4 is where IIgs releases ended, for the most part.  It's just that, as a child, it was when reading about KQ5 that I first heard about it.

[BlueMax]

Mind you, KQ4 was an SCI game with sound card support.....

They had KQ4 for IIgs?  I'd LOVE to hear that!  

[the_doctor]

They had KQ4 for IIgs?  I'd LOVE to hear that!  

What would be the best ][gs emulator, either Windows or Mac-based?  I have some old ][-series disk images around somewhere in my archives -- I wonder if any Sierra games made it in that bucket.

[the_doctor]

Oh yeah, found this: http://www.whatisthe2gs.apple2.org.za/the_fairway/index.html

KQIV for the IIgs was on it ... apparently the reviewer said it was a real disappointment, but I dont know if that carries into the music, or just because the graphics aren't to par with the PC version.

[Ari]

Mind you, KQ4 was an SCI game with sound card support.....

They had KQ4 for IIgs?  I'd LOVE to hear that!  

Sierra also had an AGI version of KQ4 with older graphics (resolution of 200x160 pixels IIRC) as you can see in this picture:


I bet the IIgs had only the former.

[BlueMax]

Here's one!  Silpheed!  I'd love to hear IIgs Silpheed since that game definately, definately had enhanced MT-32 music for PC!

[Dustin]

The IIgs Silpheed soundtrack is rather good to say the least.