King's Quest IX shuts down

[Jan]

As you may already know, the fan sequel to the King's Quest series, KQIX: Every Cloak Has a Silver Lining, has been cancelled following a cease and desist letter from Vivendi.

Personally, I am too flabbergasted to comment on this in any way right now, I'd just like to mention that the project was weeks away from being released.

http://www.kqix.com/home.php

[Ari]

So what now? Are the endless hours/weeks/months you put in to this project simply a complete waste?

Can't you contact Vivendi and try to reach some kind of settlement with them? If the game is so near completion, you sholdn't throw it all away.

One thing I don't understand, is that if you knew this might happen, why didn't you do anything to prevent it? It seems a lot of effort was put into this game. It's a damn shame it shold end like this.

[NewRisingSUn]

Contrary to popular opinion, Vivendi does not have the right to shut a fan project down. What they have the right to is to prevent people from trademark infringement. The trademark in this case is essentially the name of the game and possibly the characters, which means you can continue if you just rename the game to something else.

What I don't understand though is why those authors even announce their projects way before the first release --- if you release it out of the blue, by the time Vivendi can react, the cat will already be out of the bag, so that's what fan project authors should do.

[Ari]

How 'bout "Quests of the King"?  :wink:

[Jan]

What I don't understand though is why those authors even announce their projects way before the first release --- if you release it out of the blue, by the time Vivendi can react, the cat will already be out of the bag, so that's what fan project authors should do.

True, but that would mean much less people hearing and knowing about it, as opposed to the community that has been created over at KQIX and all the people who were eagerly expecting this project.

And isn't it true that changing the title might not solve the problem at all because the characters would be the same and, most importantly, all the references to Daventry and generally the King's Quest universe, would have to be there. Otherwise, what we'd get is an entirely different game, while most people expected the next installment in the King's Quest saga.

[discobobdude]

i heard about this and was devisated. i'm terrified about the prospects of all the Tierra projects being shut down...

although I agree that they should redo the names of Graham (lets call him William) and change the name to Quest of the King.

Fans will figure it out and look past the name changes.

I just wonder how Roberta would feel about this. I know if I were her I'd be pissed about what VU is doing.

[NewRisingSUn]

True, but that would mean much less people hearing and knowing about it, as opposed to the community that has been created over at KQIX and all the people who were eagerly expecting this project.

What good is there in people knowing about an unreleased project? It's enough when they know about it once it's released... announcing it months in advance on a dedicated website, you might as well put a "sue me" sticker on your page.

And isn't it true that changing the title might not solve the problem at all because the characters would be the same and, most importantly, all the references to Daventry and generally the King's Quest universe, would have to be there

Only if those things are trademarked or specifically copyrighted. Trademarkable are words or logos, copyrightable is program code as well as audiovisual art, but not mere references to "a king" or "a kingdom".

Fans will figure it out and look past the name changes.

Release the fangame officially and release a patch to change back the names unofficially. People, be creative --- corporate lawyers might be ruthless, but they are also very dumb people and not particularly resourceful.

[Zemus]

I just wonder how Roberta would feel about this. I know if I were her I'd be pissed about what VU is doing.

I'd be pissed about people taking my characters and make their own stories without even asking me about it...

[Fancia]

Only if those things are trademarked or specifically copyrighted. Trademarkable are words or logos, copyrightable is program code as well as audiovisual art, but not mere references to "a king" or "a kingdom".

Not necessarily; there's precedent to show that simply switching out names can still be copyright infringement, if it's clear that it is derivative of a copyrighted work. For instance, the film Nosferatu was originally intended to be an adaptation of Dracula, and switched out character names and the city in which it took place when the Dracula license turned out to be unavailable; it was ruled an ingringing work when Bram Stoker's widow sued.

That said, I do think it's an absolute shame that Viviendi has shut this down now, when it was so close to release... :/

[Jan]

Well, in my view the bottom line is that I would have understood the situation had Vivendi threatened to sue a few years ago, because I bet they knew about the project before the release date was announced. It's nice to know how ruthless they can be when confronted with something someone has devoted a large part of their life to...just to keep the memory alive.

Roberta hasn't really praised the project, I guess, but she didn't criticize it; maybe she was just waiting to see what became of it.

But I do agree with the patch idea - might cause some problems, but it would probably be the best way out of this situation. I don't expect this to happen seeing the creators' opinion in all of this, but one can only wait...This was looking to be one of the best amateur adventures...no, scratch that, one of the best fan games ever made and it's a real shame that something like this happened. VU Games knew about the hundreds if not thousands of fans that were waiting for this, but they have no regard to that at all. I doubt they understand how one could dedicate his time and money to a project that won't bring him or her any profit save for personal satisfaction.

As a side note, this whole situation reminds me of the time Sam and Max: Freelance Police was cancelled. Fortunately, I don't think that one's in the hands of people who regard the dozens of Star Wars games as their only source of income.

[Ari]

Are there any plans to try and reach some agreement with VU? Don't you think that if you send the game to them, they might recognize it's worth and allow you to release it under certain conditions?
I may be naive, but the game really looks fantastic in every way. I can't believe they'd let it go to waste like this...

[discobobdude]

its so sad that this isn't going to be coming out as it was shaping up to be fantastic.

i just cant beleive that VU did this, NOW. This has been in the works for years and it was far from secretive. Now to shut it down when the project was so close to completion is just plain evil.

of course, devils advocate, they perhaps shut it down due to the new release of the KQ collections. However let me say this, they better be worth the money they will charge. They better have patched them for Windows XP, because if they just release an old collection that is completely incompatable with our new comptuers, they are going to get a THRASHING!

[Kaminari]

Another one bites the dust.

I find it a bit strange that LucasArts might feel threatened by fan projects (in this case, Maniac Mansion Deluxe and the forthcoming Indiana Jones 1) which they would never have tried to do by themselves anyway -- heck, LA dropped the adventure genre years ago. It's not like if they were going to loose money because of those.

Thankfully, some companies are not that narrow-minded. Cyan Worlds authorized an ambitious fan project called The Ages of Ilathid, providing that it wouldn't denature the original spirit of the franchise and that the fan project would be released for free.

[Zemus]

It has to do with protecting trademark. If they don't do anything, they'll have a weaker case if they sometime in the future do want to close down a project like that. Also, Maniac Mansion Deluxe is a copy of the original game so it is like offering their game for free. Yes, they're not making any money off of it anymore, but you can't really blame them for wanting to protect what they own...

[Great Hierophant]

It would have been better to advertise the game as being in the King's Quest style or the like than to style it King's Quest IX. If you don't own the rights, you should settle for non-canocity.

In the case of Dracula, Murnau and Co. adapted an already existing work, which was declared copyright infringement.  As they changed the names, it could hardly be called trademark infringement.  King's Quest IX would have taken distinctive characters, settings, backstory and a name but not a pre-existing work itself.  This is closer to trademark infringement but still retains elements of copyright infringement by taking more than "fair use."  

As a side note, this whole situation reminds me of the time Sam and Max: Freelance Police was cancelled. Fortunately, I don't think that one's in the hands of people who regard the dozens of Star Wars games as their only source of income.

Fortunately, unlike Full Throttle control over the property did not lie entirely with them.  

Release the fangame officially and release a patch to change back the names unofficially. People, be creative --- corporate lawyers might be ruthless, but they are also very dumb people and not particularly resourceful.

A fine idea.  Many prints of Nosferatu used the Dracula names in the intertitles after Stoker's widow died.  

I suppose you should be grateful that all they did was to send the letter rather than to pursue legal remedies.  Statutory damages for infringement do not take the actual harm the infringing work caused into consideration.

[Ari]

We could try something a little more drastic:
Start collecting signatures from people all over the world and boycott VU (or Sierra Entertainment) games till they allow the game to be released.

It's a rather extreme course of action, but it has proven itself useful in other instances.

[Tom]

The KQ9 project was from the start, infringing on the Intellectual Property rights of Vivendi Universal Games, Inc.  There's no grey area about it.  They didn't acquire permission to use Vivendi's IP.  So, was the C&D any surprise?  

Hopefully, the KQ9 team will be able to make some kind of arrangement, such as an agreement like Tierra/AGDI has made.  I can't really speak on this topic in detail, since some of it is confidential.  AGDI never received a C&D letter from Vivendi -- but rather, a "let's talk" letter.  Whether Vivendi's interested in taking on additional fan game makers, I don't know, but am curious to find out.

Changing the screenplay to create new characters, dialogue, and locales would be a huge amount of work.  Many of the scenes in KQ9 reflect previous KQ lands.  But unless they can reach some sort of an arrangement with Vivendi, they'll have no other choice.  Vivendi Universal is one of the largest corporations on the planet...the little guy wouldn't fare well against them in court, that's for sure.

[NewRisingSUn]

The KQ9 project was from the start, infringing on the Intellectual Property rights of Vivendi Universal Games, Inc.

"Intellectual Property", with capital I and L and "Inc."... I hoped to never have to read/hear such an expression, that stands for corporate corruption, from a decent person, let alone from a musician.

Anyway, I don't think the KQ9 team should make an "arrangement", that would only acknowledge the corporate side's point of view. Look at what happened to AGDI.

As I said before, just release it unofficially out of the blue, and that's that; if you haven't been stupid enough to have your real names be known, there's nothing the corporate sharks can do about it, and everyone can play your fangame.
It's also a more workable solution that trying to reason with the unreasonable/trying to appease the immoral.

"Collecting signatures" is a totally stupid idea, because that encourages Vivendi's course of action. As Tom pointed out, they don't simply want the team to stop development on the game, rather, Vivendi wants to make a profit of a fangame without paying the developers, like they did with AGDI/Tierra ("confidential" my rear end). By sending them thousands of signatures, you'll only make them giddy.

[Marten]

Vivendi wants to make a profit of a fangame without paying the developers, like they did with AGDI/Tierra ("confidential" my rear end). By sending them thousands of signatures, you'll only make them giddy.

When did VU make a profit off of AGDI/Tierra?  Please back up your claims...

[Boogeyman]

Tom, the KQ9 project was not infringing on ANYTHING. Now, if Phoenix Studios had been looking to make money out of it, then it WOULD have been a copyright infringment, but it was a totally freeware project.