SC-8820 vs. SC-8850

[Tom]

Guess I could throw this into the mix, too; the VSC Ver. 3, which supposedly uses the SC-88Pro sound map:

http://queststudios.com/temp/VSCProDrums.mp3

They sound like the Rap-10, to me.  

[Alistair]

The 8850 sample sounds better than the 8820's to me.. Maybe I should relisten.

- Alistair

[Tom]

Yeah, I like the way the 8850's Standard Drum Set 2 sounds, too.  But I still prefer the 8820's cymbals.  I'm going to be doing some composing this coming week and I plan to use just the 8850 & MT-32.  I've been getting things setup all weekend on my primary PC; getting DOSBox and SpG up and running with the Audigy's MIDI port, under XP.  My new (used eBay) amp should be here tomorrow, then I'm all set to go -- looking forward to really  getting to know the 8850.

[Alistair]

Definitely; let me know what you find out Tom.

And I totally agree with you on the 8820 cymbals. My personal belief is that the 8820 is probably a nicer sounding module overall.

I WOULD like if you would do 2 more comparisons of the Clarinets, though- one with the 8850 Clarinet in Hall 1 reverb and one with the 8850 88Pro map Clarinet in Hall1 reverb.

- Alistair

[Tom]

Months later...

Having finally incorporated the SC-8850 into my music setup, and having the chance to really do some composing with it, I want to renege on some of my ealier statements regarding the SC-8850's percussion.  They DO have a way of growing on you.  I'm finding that overall, Standard Set #1 seems to sound convincingly more realistic than the SC-8820's.  Even though I still love the long, smooth decay of the 8820's cymbals, the 8850's crash, and a couple of the toms, take on a more natural tone.  Since there's hundreds of different sounding cymbals and toms out there, both of these SC's serve as good choices for reproducing percussion.

The 8850 differs in mixing from the 8820.  As I mentioned before, the two aren't readily compatible with all MIDI song files.  But they're both easily adjustable to the other.  

But I still can't end my love affair with the MT-32's Oboe, Bassoon, Clarinet, Timpani, and Soundtrack.  I'll probably use these sounds until I die.

[jbltecnicspro]

I tend to agree with you regarding the two units' strings.  The SC-8820 has much nicer strings than the SC-8850.  In my opinion, the SC-8850 is too ambitious when it comes to its strings, and it just tries too hard to create that "resin" effect of an orchestra.  Unfortunately, it's a failed attempt that really falls flat - and the result is a cheesy-sounding string section.  While the SC-8820 could also be considered cheesy in the string department, the SC-8820 is more subtle, so it's hard to notice the synthetic nature of its strings.  Don't get me wrong, both of the units have the same negative quality, it's just that the SC-8820 does a better job at hiding that quality, and overall, it presents a smoother string ensemble that is perfect for background strings and some foreground strings.  However, none of the units' strings are good enough to create a professional-sounding standalone piece.  But keep in mind that I'm being VERY picky here.

EDIT:  And Tom, how is it that you love the MT-32's reed instruments?  To me the oboe is far too fake-sounding, in terms of an oboe.  I admit that I like how the MT-32's instruments sound natural in their own way, but when ever I try to get the MT-32 to do some oboe solos, I am often disappointed.  Oboe is an instrument that I absolutely worship, and the English Horn - so I guess this is why I don't like the MT-32's oboe.  However, its Timpani and Soundtrack are still very good, and its guitars and LA pianos are really good sounding.  To me, the guitar sounds good not in the way that it imitates a real guitar, but in the way that it sounds so natural that it could convince people that it is a unique, strummed instrument - like a lute or something.  What is it about the MT-32 that makes it sound so warm and natural?  Anyways, to end my rambling, I'll close with the statement that I'll always use my MT-32 in my music, whether it plays a huge role or not, that's to be determined- but the MT-32 is a module most musicians find that once they've picked it up, they cannot turn their back on it.  

[Alistair]

The MT-32's wind/reed instruments are simply both subtle and realistic. Besides, they sound great *in combination* with SC and XG instruments as well. Bassoon and Clarinet spring to mind.

I was at a cabaret act midweek and I caught myself thinking how much like the clarinet player, the MT-32's clarinet sounded.

I don't consider either the 8820 or 8850 to have especially nice strings. I find myself using my MU-100R's XG level 3 strings a lot (there's about 4 different sets that are good), though- they're really nice, and a very good compliment to the MT-32's grainy 'Str Sect 1(MS)' as well.

I've also noticed that the 8850 percussion ain't that bad. About a week ago I was mixing MIDI and couldn't tell whether I liked the 8820 or 8850 cymbal better. My philosophy is, noone will ever notice. (Well, noone outside Tom/me anyway.)

- Alistair

[jbltecnicspro]

The MT-32's wind/reed instruments are simply both subtle and realistic. Besides, they sound great *in combination* with SC and XG instruments as well. Bassoon and Clarinet spring to mind.

I was at a cabaret act midweek and I caught myself thinking how much like the clarinet player, the MT-32's clarinet sounded.

- Alistair

Lol, no way!  I was performing with a clarinet player in May, and I thought almost the same thing, but with a twist.  I could see where one would think that the MT-32 sounds like a clarinet, but to me it's too perfect - there are no "wind" characteristics, so I'm really careful to use the MT-32's clarinet as a solo.  But in a mix, they're really good.    I'm sorry, but Bassoon sounds nothing like the real thing - it just sounds like the oboe patch with a little bit of variation - try playing the oboe in lower registers and you'll see what I'm talking about.  To me the bassoon sounds too "honky" if you understand what I'm saying.

The flutes in the MT-32 are pretty good when used correctly.  Unfortunately, there are no "classical" flute sounds to it that are long and sustained, like the ED Modules, but I'm sure a skilled person could create one.

[Alistair]

MT-32 Clarinet- listen to some Laura Bow 1 music. It's amazingly good! Also LSL6's Makeup Room.

MT-32 Basoon- Listen to some LB2 or Kyrandia music. It has great growl and such. Actually, there's also a piece from KQ7, that although KQ7 was composed for the SC-55, the Bassoon actually sounds REAL. I'll have to record it sometime.

- Alistair

[Tom]

I'm sorry, but Bassoon sounds nothing like the real thing - it just sounds like the oboe patch with a little bit of variation

I would disagree.  My step-daughter played for years (was once quite the musician.)  Though the MT-32 isn't perfect, for my money and when used properly, it produces the most convincing oboe and bassoon of any MIDI gear I have.  (And I believe, that's what I was referring to in my post....the MIDI equipment I have.)  No doubt, there's better sounding oboes and bassoons out there, but my SC's and Yamaha XG's don't possess them.

Flutes -- that's another story.  I much prefer the ED flute choices.  No contest.  And I've often mixed the MT-32 and 8820's clarinet timbres together, which I feel, gives it a really warm, full feel.  I'd love to have the chance to try XR winds.  I really can't tell how good a sound is until I use it to compose with; that's when you really learn its strengths and limitations.  I haven't been disappointed with the MT-32's oboe or bassoon, except for the "noise" factor.

Everyone is going to have their differnces in opinion, and their likes and dislikes.  Most of us have been exposed to the real thing on any number of occasions, too, so perhaps we tend to go by our own personal experiences.

[jbltecnicspro]

MT-32 Clarinet- listen to some Laura Bow 1 music. It's amazingly good! Also LSL6's Makeup Room.

MT-32 Basoon- Listen to some LB2 or Kyrandia music. It has great growl and such. Actually, there's also a piece from KQ7, that although KQ7 was composed for the SC-55, the Bassoon actually sounds REAL. I'll have to record it sometime.

- Alistair

I've played all the games using the MT-32, except for KQ7 - which won't run on my PC even with DOS box ().  Bassoon sounds warm and nice, but in terms of being realistic, it doesn't do it for me - neither do the oboe and english horn.  Though, as Tom said - the MT-32's oboe and bassoon are better than the Sound Canvas.  I personally hate the oboe on the SC-55 with a passion.

[Alistair]

Well, the SC-55's problem was that for GM purposes, the patch quality had to 'cover the field'. As in, all instruments had to be of roughly the same quality (in other words, mediocre). The MT-32 didn't have that limitation because most composers used custom SysEx and could replace the patches they didn't like with their own.

- Alistair