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Author Topic: Wanted: Roland CM-500 or SC-55/55MKII  (Read 26861 times)
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jbltecnicspro
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« Reply #80 on: January 09, 2006, 09:05:23 PM »

Quote from: Cloudschatze
Quote from: jbltecnicspro
...and I have ended up giving them away to my family


Oh, umm... Did you know that I am your long lost brother? No? Yeah, life's kind of funny that way... So, can I have my speakers now...?


Well, I should rephrase.  I've only given a single pair away.  The rest of the Bose is in the house, and all they do is stand there and please guests.  It's kind of funny hearing them say "Wow! You have Bose, those are nice speakers you have..." or "Wow, your entertainment center sounds great," without actually hearing the speakers in use.
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Cloudschatze
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« Reply #81 on: January 09, 2006, 09:18:17 PM »

I have a pair of Bose MediaMate speakers which flank the monitor. They're actually fairly nice-sounding, but then, I'm only running digital audio sources to them (2 PAS cards).

Anything else goes through the DS-50a's, which, far from being the most "musical" monitors, are extremely accurate.


Of course, any real listening requires a great pair of headphones... Smiley
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jbltecnicspro
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« Reply #82 on: January 09, 2006, 10:44:19 PM »

Bose sounds decent enough, but for the price, I expect them to sound much better.  They are pretty overrated. Yes, the Waveradio sounds good for its size, but is the $500 price tag worth it?  Honestly, my JBLs cost $500 and obviously being floorstanding, there is no comparison.  I've heard the Mediamates and I agree that they are smooth sounding and somewhat melodic to a point, but for $100, they're horrible, period.  Of course, you're right with the headphone statement.  Smiley  Which model headphones do you use?  Currently, I use Sennheiser HD280pros - they're not extremely accurate, but they are very accurate, and do not suffer too much with the "garbage in, garbage out" problem (though the garbage is noticeable).
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HondaSiR
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« Reply #83 on: January 10, 2006, 01:15:28 AM »

No problem with your opinion of Bose. I haven't heard the 701 series in the showrooms (they weren't available yet when I visited years ago). I've listened to their smaller sattelite versions with the hidden subwoofers. To me they sound superior to any Creative brand. They do make the grade according to my taste. But as I said before, I wouldn't want anybody to part with their money without trying a listening test themselves.   Smiley

By the way, I'm also your long lost uncle. We're family! Now, about donating some of your Bose speakers to me.... :wink:
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jbltecnicspro
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« Reply #84 on: January 10, 2006, 03:08:08 AM »

Honda, just a quick question - where have you listened to Bose speakers, at the Bose store?

At any rate, I never judge speakers by how they sound at the showroom.  Showrooms are never have the same audio characteristics of the rooms that the speakers will placed in.  If I bought on showroom sounds, I would have bought some cheap set of JVC speakers over my JBLs, because my JBLs sounds like crap in showrooms.  In fact, when I closed my eyes and listened to them at this electronic store, I thought I was listening to another brand of speakers - the store didn't even have them set up correctly!  Thank God for 30 day no questions return policy.  Smiley
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HondaSiR
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« Reply #85 on: January 10, 2006, 05:07:58 AM »

It was at a Bose store inside a shopping mall.  I don't think the guys working there would get the speakers set up in a wrongful manner. The sound I was hearing was nice, I didn't have a reason to doubt the wiring was wrong. And the room was quiet, not like in a large electronics store filled by lots of people and different brands of equipment.
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jbltecnicspro
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« Reply #86 on: January 10, 2006, 09:31:22 PM »

Quote from: HondaSiR
It was at a Bose store inside a shopping mall.  I don't think the guys working there would get the speakers set up in a wrongful manner. The sound I was hearing was nice, I didn't have a reason to doubt the wiring was wrong. And the room was quiet, not like in a large electronics store filled by lots of people and different brands of equipment.


I hate to be the one to point conspiracy on Bose, but of course they sound good at a Bose store...go figure.  There are numerous stories of which Bose uses other audio equipment when demoing their products.  In fact, most of the reports come from people who aren't Bose haters at all.  Damn, I can't find the post I wanted you to see, but one guy said that during a product demo, he stayed behind the group of shoppers while they left with the demo guy, and he saw that the wires from the speakers weren't going to the main receiver unit (the Lifestyle Home Theater), and he found that instead, the cables lead to a five component rack.  There was a preamp of which he couldn't see the brand name because of the low-lighting, but he made out clearly the name Krell, of which looked like an amp.  A few minutes later, the Bose guy came back and asked him to leave the room.  When asked why they weren't using the Lifestyle system, the man said that the five component rack made it easier for them...

There are lots of other posts about this kind of thing on the web, too.  And most of them seem genuine enough - no one seems to hate Bose at all.  In my recollection, there were at least a few posters who found that Bose used other audio equipment who were die-hard fans, and were apparently upset with the matter.  Unfortunately, I do not live near a Bose store anymore, otherwise, I'd be happy to do some espionage.  Smiley

Some websites even have reviews on the specs of the speakers, and such, and most of the information is true.  I've taken apart an old Accoustimass system (the one with the hidden subwoofer) to verify that the components inside the unit are very cheap - and they are cheap.  Honda, listening to a speaker brand's speaker at their own store is like judging MIDI sound modules based on their built-in demo songs.  Obvously, the store's rooms are optimized for their own speakers (once again, go figure).  This is why I don't want to go to another Bose store again.

If you haven't figured it out yet, I seriously do NOT like Bose at all.  They seem to put more efforts on marketing their speakers more than on sound quality.  For example, my parents have an old pair of Bose 301s and when compared to the new 301s, they're the exact same - only the newer ones look stylish.  But the main reason I do not like Bose is that their prices are way too high, and that they put themselves on the market as "the best."  In fact, many people think that Bose is "the best" without actually hearing a Bose speaker - my grandmother is exactly like this.  She actually started to argue and yell at me on how Bose is the best, period - and the lady's never heard them in her life...  They're ripping people off, and to have a pair of Bose speakers is a status symbol in America ( I don't know how it is in the Philippines).  I'll give them this: they sounds better than your average econo-Japanese models, but that's all... they're certainly not worth the price tag.

Bose convinces people that they're the best through marketing.  Honestly, when's the last time you've seen a Boston Accoustics commercial on TV, or a set of Paradigm up for a free trial on an infomercial?  Never, and you never will.  Yet I see Bose commercials on TV constantly, and it's sickening to know how many people feed into this stuff.  It took me 2 pairs of speakers to realize that Bose is far from "the best," and at best, they're your average, mediocre speakers.  I bought a pair of KLH that were $200 less than the Bose 601 and tried them both at my home... the KLH's put the Bose to shame.  It was a night and day difference.  On the KLH's I was able to hear cymbal sounds that I normally wouldn't hear on the Bose (on the Bose, they're there, but hardly audible), and there wasn't more bass, but the bass had more quality than the 601s.  Also, the midrange was smoother overall.  I then took them both back, and decided to try the JBLs, which beat them both (a landslide victory, I might add).

Ok, enough of my novel... lol,  I'll try to dig through some forums to link some posts.

EDIT:  My post was so anti-Bose, I must give them credit on two speakers.  The first is their Bose 10.2 speakers, which were made in the 1980s.  I believe that this is Bose's only hi-fi speaker set, as the system is awesome.  While it's not up there with the world's best, these babies are nice, and if I see them on Ebay, I will definately snatch them up.  The 701s are also pretty good, but the highs leave a little to be desired, as does the midrange - it sounds thin.  However, these speakers are much better than Bose's modern day offerings, by a long shot actually.
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Alistair
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« Reply #87 on: January 10, 2006, 09:44:58 PM »

Incidentally, that reminds me of the Bose ads we have back home. It's VERY rare you get home speaker ads on back in Australia (car stereos, sure, but home theatre, not so much), and sometimes they'd show Bose ads. They were terrible!! So insulting to your intelligence. But then again I feel the same way about any ad with the phrase 'MP3' in it.

- Alistair
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jbltecnicspro
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« Reply #88 on: January 10, 2006, 11:10:36 PM »

Quote from: Alistair
Incidentally, that reminds me of the Bose ads we have back home. It's VERY rare you get home speaker ads on back in Australia (car stereos, sure, but home theatre, not so much), and sometimes they'd show Bose ads. They were terrible!! So insulting to your intelligence. But then again I feel the same way about any ad with the phrase 'MP3' in it.

- Alistair


In America, we never get home speaker ads other than Bose.  Car stereos, sure, but not home audio.  What really craps me is that stuff like the Waveradio actually gets sold!  For the CD model, it costs $500!!  My current bedroom setup = Panasonic portable CD player plugged into the Klipsch Promedia... Cost = $250 at most.  I've heard the waveradio, and I know it does not come close to matching a bookshelf system, let alone a full floorstanding model.  Point is, my Klipsch PC system will make the Waveradio look like what it essentially is, an extremely overpriced clock radio.
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Alistair
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« Reply #89 on: January 10, 2006, 11:44:23 PM »

Hey, isn't that the point of America? Sell people products you want to sell 'em, not consumers buying what they want and need? Smiley

- Alistair
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Cloudschatze
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« Reply #90 on: January 11, 2006, 09:11:37 PM »

Quote from: NewRisingSUn
The CM-500 and the CM-32LN are not recommended because of their excessive vibrato.


Back to the vibrato issue, is there any chance that it is related to the crystal oscillator for the LA32 chip? This crystal, in both the CM-32L and CM-500, is listed at 16.384mhz, though the form packages are different, and likely the manufacturer. Unless one is out of spec though, it probably isn't the cause. Still, it might be interesting to grab the clock output as it enters the LA32, and compare the two.

The LA32 and Boss reverb chips share the same part numbers between devices, so I am going to assume that they are the same. Then again, there are two completely different MT-32 mainboards which share the same part number...

Might the samples themselves have been changed?
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Zemus
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« Reply #91 on: January 11, 2006, 11:09:49 PM »

The crystal determines the speed the processor runs at, not what it actually does. These crystals are usually very precise so I doubt you'd get any big difference if you hooked up a frequency counter.
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Cloudschatze
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« Reply #92 on: January 11, 2006, 11:45:40 PM »

Quote from: Zemus
The crystal determines the speed the processor runs at, not what it actually does.


Right, but vibrato is an oscillation, so wouldn't the crystal determine it's speed also?

Anyway, you're probably correct about them being pretty accurate, but then again, it's Roland we're talking about. Smiley
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Dustin
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« Reply #93 on: January 12, 2006, 12:01:40 PM »

Quote
But the main reason I do not like Bose is that their prices are way too high, and that they put themselves on the market as "the best."



Doesn't every company put themselves on the market as "the best"?

If a company like Altec Lansing were to put thier adverts in the following terms, do you think they'd sell?



The new line of speakers from Altec Lansing are superior to anything manufactured by our competitors.......Except Bose, we really can't achieve the level of quality that Bose has been building into thier products for the last 20 years, but we still offer a fine line of affordable half-desent sounding speakers at a fraction of the cost.

          We're not Bose, and we don't pretend to be..




I doctored up that ad I found in a magazine as an example. I love Altec Lansing , and own 4 sets of thier speakers so not trying to demote them in any way, or Bose.

So, each company advertieses themselves as being the best......It's up to the consumer to decide which company he/she thinks is the best.


Incedentally, I am headed to a Bose showroom today to have a look at what all this fuss is about.
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-Dustin
jbltecnicspro
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« Reply #94 on: January 13, 2006, 02:12:11 PM »

I wouldn't do that Dustin.  The Bose store is specifically engineered to the Bose speakers.  The store not only controls the accoustics of which the speakers are heard in, but the music that the speakers play are controlled by  Bose, so you don't know if they've been 1) selected specifically because the speakers accell at them and 2) if there's some kind of equalization going on behind the scenes.  Keep in mind that the store just has the speakers set up so that the components are all behind the scenes - you don't get the complete picture when you are at the store.  Like I said earlier, it's like comparing MIDI sound modules by using their built-in demo songs.  The music, equipment, and accoustics are all designed for one thing:  to make the speakers sound their best, and the ultimate goal of Bose is not to provide quality speakers, but to SELL the speakers.
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