SC-55 versus SC-55mkII

[apeman]

Hiya,

I own a SCD-15 (ie. SCB-55, I think) daughterboard. Sadly now that the days of ISA sound cards with Waveblaster connectors are gone, I can't really use it anymore! So I should get an external replacement which will be more future-proof (provided the trusty MIDI socket never goes out of fashion)...
The obvious choice is a SC-55 (my daughterboard has the same electronics, correct?) and there are plenty on eBay. My question is about the Mk. II which I keep hearing about on this forum, could someone tell me:

1. What the differences are between the Mk. 1 and Mk. 2?
2. Whether you can tell just by looking at it which revision it is?

Thanks a lot guys,
Mike

[Tom]

I can only address the first part of your post...

The SCB-55 doesn't need an ISA card ... I used mine with the Turtle Beach Santa Cruz PCI sound card.  And, one of my mobo's also has a WAVE BLASTER header.  The SCB-55 offers more sounds and polyphony than the original SC-55 sound module, so It would probably be a good idea to save your money with the SC-55, and simply buy a Santa Cruz on Ebay.  They're VERY inexpensive.

[apeman]

Thanks Tom - thing is, I'm pretty happy with my Audigy 2 at the moment and not sure I want to fiddle around inside my machine again. Thanks for the tip though, I'll keep my eyes peeled for a Santa Cruz, I remember hearing favourable things about it a few years back.

[jbltecnicspro]

The SC-55 MKII has more notes of polyphony than the SC-55 (24 vs 28 on the MkII).  You might not think that four notes makes a difference, but believe me, from experience, I know that it does make a difference.  The MkII also includes more sounds than the SC-55 (354 vs the SC-55's 317).  If you're intent on keeping your Audigy 2, then I suggest either a SC-55 MkII, or even the higher-end modules like the SC-88 or SC-88VL.

[Great Hierophant]

I use my SCB-55 with an USB to ISA adapter/emulator.  It costs a bit, but so will a standalone module.  You will need an ISA sound card or midi interface card with a wavetable header; I use an MPU-401/AT, but any sound card with midi in/out will do (may need a gameport-midi cable.)

[Laust]

Any card will not do. Sound Blaster cards for example don't route MIDI-In on the joystick port to the wavetable daughtercard.

[apeman]

A USB to ISA adapter? Wow, I didn't even know those existed. Mind me asking what make yours is or where you'd recommend locating them?
Do they work well with ISA sound cards?

[apeman]

Any card will not do. Sound Blaster cards for example don't route MIDI-In on the joystick port to the wavetable daughtercard.

But why would I require MIDI In (if I just want to play old games...)?

[Laust]

The USB-ISA adapters provide an interface to the ISA cards, but they don't magically make an ISA bus appear on your PC. You can access the card, but you would have to make your own programs/drivers for it (in other words, DOS games would not see the ISA sound card). What Great Hierophant is doing is using the USB-ISA adapter as a glorified power supply, merely powering the ISA card. This works for the Roland MPU-401AT (and some other cards) because they automatically send MIDI-In (from the ISA card's MIDI-In connector) to the attached Wavetable card. The result is more or less an external GS synthesizer with MIDI input. You then need a secondary MIDI device (eg. on board sound card with MIDI-Out) and a MIDI cable between this and the external ISA card to actually get any sound. With me so far?

Creative's sound cards, on the other hand, do not work this way. Any data sent to their MIDI-input is routed no further. You can access it from a program, but nothing happens by default.

If you use eBay anyway, Tom's suggestion is probably your best and cheapest bet.

[apeman]

Thanks Laust! I had to reread that a few times, but I think in the end I got it.  
So, but in order to send MIDI to my "glorified" external unit I can use any card, right? After all even Creative cards can send MIDI Out.
I have a MPU401/AT so I could use that in the adapter.

By the way, would the setup work in Dosbox too? It should, right...

Thanks again for all your help. Looking forward to Hierophant's reply - the only such adapters I could Google so far were from a company call Arstech.

Cheers,
Mike

[Great Hierophant]

I have a MPU401/AT so I could use that in the adapter.

By the way, would the setup work in Dosbox too? It should, right...

Thanks again for all your help. Looking forward to Hierophant's reply - the only such adapters I could Google so far were from a company call Arstech.

That is the company I used.  However, there are several caveats:

Only the Right Angle adapter is currently available as a single slot adapter.

The double length enclosure must be used, is a bit tricky to fit with the USB2-to-ISA+MPU-401/AT combo and doesn't cover the sides.  

You will need the power supply module for -5V and +12/-12V power sources.  

The total cost will be $175 + shipping.

You must load the software each time windows starts and also requires some tweaking to the USB properties.    

You will almost undoubtedly need a 5-pin Midi to 6-pin mini-Midi adapter to send midi signals to the MPU-401/AT.  

Now that we have got that out of the way, once the device is working, you  can use it as an external midi device.  Just connect a midi cable from the whatever midi interface your computer is connected to to the midi in on the card and have fun.  I use a Roland UM-1X USB midi interface, but just signify whatever midi output device in the Windows Sound and Audio control panel is available.  It will work for any emulator, including DOSBox, that supports true midi hardware.

I would gladly trade the whole thing for a working SC-55MKII in good condition.

[Alistair]

By the way- you can tell a SC-55 from a SC-55 mk II simply because the mk II has 'SC-55 mk II' written in yellow on the front, next to the 'GS' logo.

- Alistair

[apeman]

Thanks Hierophant for the helpful list - yes, a ready-made external module would be a lot more straightforward. So I'll keep my eyes peeled for a SC-55....

[jbltecnicspro]

If you want to listen to modern MIDI music, be sure to at least get a SC-55 MkII, as the low polyphony of the SC-55 will likely turn you away from it.  Then once you get one, you're stuck.   I'm not saying that the SC-55 is a terrible module, but you have to take it easy with the unit.  Since the unit only is capable of producing 24 notes max, and since some patches actually use 2 notes of polyphony per note produced, the extra four notes of the Mk II will come in handy.  Now, of course, you could go even further and get an SC-88, with the 64 note capability - it's your call.

[Alistair]

Well, all I'd say to that is, "Who buys a SC-55 to listen to modern MIDI music". ;P

- Alistair

[jbltecnicspro]

Well, all I'd say to that is, "Who buys a SC-55 to listen to modern MIDI music". ;P

- Alistair

Hey, it works for most modern stuff.  But some things don't work to well.  

[Tom]

Hey, it works for most modern stuff. But some things don't work to well.

I'd agree -- I believe there's MUCH more music written for the SC-55 General MIDI than any other MIDI device.  I think newer synths have much less in the way of songs written for them, even though some MIDI files may sound better on a newer synth -- or may not.

[MusicallyInspired]

I'd agree -- I believe there's MUCH more music written for the SC-55 General MIDI than any other MIDI device.

I'd say I agree. Especially since most of the DOS games made in the 1985-1998 era with MIDI soundtracks designed specifically for the SC-55 would add even more to that list!

It is a gerat device, I hope I can acquire an SC-55MkII sometime down the road. I'm interested in hearing what the KQ2VGA+ soundtrack sounds in regular General MIDI format (I know the digital pack is better, but it's still inetersting).

[jbltecnicspro]

If you want to hear the KQ2VGA in General MIDI, I suggest you get the MkII and don't skimp on the SC-55.  The SC-55 can't handle the polyphony with KQ2VGA - notes drop constantly.

[Tom]

Nah...nobody wants to waste time with the GM version of KQ2VGA.  It was meant to be heard, digitally, with the SC-8820, MT-32, and XG playing the music and f/x.