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Author Topic: New Sierra Compilations!  (Read 9866 times)
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glendower
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« Reply #40 on: September 20, 2006, 07:35:12 PM »

Quote from: kreatorb
hangon - so they removed the exe's? Does that mean that if I get the space quest collection I won't be able to play it under dos without downloading some warez?

If so that's a major bummer for me and it kills much of the point in buying a legit version (which doesn't come with any manuals anyway).

Another thing is.. should I expect this to be released in Australia or should I be ordering from the US?


Heh. I used to own all of the space quests, but lost them throughout the years. that's how I justify downloading warez. I paid for a license already, damn it! Smiley If they were enhanced, I'd probably be more interested. If they don't even have the DOS exes, though, I'm with you, not really seeing the point.

The Two Guys from Andromeda should license an engine from Bethesda and make a sprawling SQ adventure... Smiley
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NewRisingSUn
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« Reply #41 on: September 20, 2006, 07:41:21 PM »

They do have the DOS .EXEs, otherwise DosBox couldn't run them. What is missing is the INSTALL.EXE program, as Marten said.
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Nytegard
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« Reply #42 on: September 20, 2006, 10:11:37 PM »

The problem is, some of the resource.cfgs aren't set up for General Midi, when the game actually supports it.  It doesn't matter how virtualized your environment is, if DOSBox supports midi emulation, why would you want Adlib emulation instead?

As far as removing the install program. several of the older collection series already did this.  My best guess as to what happened, they have the actual programs stored somewhere in an archive, probably used one of the older collections which didn't have the install programs.  Looking at the original collection CDs that didn't have the install program, its set up to sound blaster, which, during that time made sense.  SB16 was out at the time, the MT32 wasn't sold anymore, and General Midi cards were $500+.  The people who put this collection together probably just configured it to work correctly with DOSBox, and that mastered a new disk.

Fortunately, the install program, unlike the actual executables for the games, are extremely generic.  You can use one install with almost every game that came out around the same time, and get it configured that way.
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Marten
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« Reply #43 on: September 21, 2006, 05:35:48 PM »

Quote from: NewRisingSUn
They do have the DOS .EXEs, otherwise DosBox couldn't run them. What is missing is the INSTALL.EXE program, as Marten said.


Alistair gets props for mentioning it originally.  I don't actually own any of these new collections, nor do I intend to.  I have all of the previous collection releases, except the King's Quest collection, which was redundant because I picked up the Roberta Williams Anthology.  I have both versions of the collected Quest for Glory set.

A few years ago I thought about doing my own reworking of these collections, but I just didn't have the time to do it, and I gave up.  But if I did have the time - that is, if I were paid, I'd certainly look at the following:

[1] Get permission from Anders to put his AGI-SB and AGI-MIDI drivers in the collection.

[2] Pick up other fan-made drivers and fixes for problems (there are a few fan-made bugfixes) and add those to the collection(s) too.

[3] Include all versions of the games whereever possible.  With a proper emulator (not just DosBox), it should be possible to emulate booting the original King's Quest with the original opening music, and fake the PCJr graphics card so that it displays in 16 colors.  That would give the player 4 different versions of King's Quest I.  Original, AGI-DOS, EGA, and AGDI's VGA.  Include both disk and CD versions of games, and DOS and Windows versions of games, where applicable.

[4] Set the installer up to let the user either "use defaults" or "select your own hardware".  "Defaults" would be to use Anders drivers for the AGI games.

[5] Games should be selected from a graphical menu system that displays original box cover art, with the option to click through for larger scans of the original boxes and manuals.  Throw in brief overviews of each game, retrospective quotes from the author(s), etc.

[6] If the collection is divided into groups sold separately, installing different collections onto your computer would merge them under a single menuing system (see previous entry).  One manager for playing all of the games, and each collection adding itself like a chapter to a book.

[7] Include all of the original Sierra demo disks, including the original multiplayer Quest for Glory V preview.

[8] Include a soundtrack CD with a brief selection of MIDI or MT-32 music from each game in a given collection.

[9] Include many lost or forgotten games, such as the Black Cauldron, Freddy Pharkas, and action games like Thexder and Silpheed.  Do it thorough and do it right.

These were the ideas I had, for doing this "right."

Now, a funny idea here... there's really no reason someone couldn't build this infrastructure and design it to use the new collections (and perhaps the old, too) as a data source...

Instead of grousing about Vivendi's sloptastic job, let's discuss:  What else would you do, if you were assigned the project of putting together these collections yourself?

We were working on a FAQ here at Quest Studios for getting these games to run on modern hardware, at one point.  What if we got back to it as a starting point?
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NewRisingSUn
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« Reply #44 on: September 21, 2006, 06:00:38 PM »

Quote from: Marten
Get permission from Anders to put his AGI-SB and AGI-MIDI drivers in the collection.
Better include NAGI, as AGISB/AGIMIDI don't emulate the fourth (noise) channel. It's also a good idea to use a real Windows application instead of emulating a DOS one.
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Pick up other fan-made drivers and fixes for problems (there are a few fan-made bugfixes) and add those to the collection(s) too.
I wouldn't give the water company permission to use the SQ4CD update for profit. Then again, they might not care about my permission since creating fan-made drivers/patches inevitably involves reverse-engineering/disassembling the original game code, which they could construe as illegal.
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That would give the player 4 different versions of King's Quest I. Original, AGI-DOS, EGA, and AGDI's VGA.
Actually it's 6. PCjr, Tandy, IBM (all 1984), AGI (1987), EGA (1990), AGDI. The PCjr and Tandy releases have (subtle) differences, and you gotta dig those composite graphics in the 1984 IBM version Smiley. And don't forget the Apple IIgs version with its specially composed music by Al Lowe. That's seven versions then...
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Include a soundtrack CD with a brief selection of MIDI or MT-32 music from each game in a given collection
What's that for? Smiley

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What else would you do, if you were assigned the project of putting together these collections yourself?
The most worthwhile thing would be to get a real Win32 version of the SCI interpreter, of course. Once you have that, adding enhancements of any kind will be a lot easier, as the original DOS environment is not just difficult to run on modern computers; adding enhancements is even harder.

For example, the Amiga version of KQ4 has a horrible conversion of the music, but to make up for that (I don't know if that's the reason Wink), they added a lot of very nice sound effects, like the water at the beach, the flowing of the stream and the seagulls... I once tried producing an enhanced PC version that incorporated both the excellent MT-32 music as well as the Amiga sound effects. The problem was that those sound effects were not just ordinary samples (which would be trivial to add to the PC version), but were real ambient MIDI tracks using several sampled waveforms at a time. In other words, I had to add a complete MOD-like player to the MT32.DRV driver. I succeeded at that, but was never satisfied with the result, as I didn't have a low-pass filter, so it sounded very metallic, just like early MOD players.
If I had a Windows executable with source, this would be trivial, as I could just use some filter/interpolation library, or even an Amiga sound emulation library.

Or you could record the complete score from MT-32/SC-55 as .mp3/.ogg and use them instead of the original MIDI sound drivers, allowing all users without a real MT-32/SC-55 to hear the music as intended, for example.

I just can't believe that all of the sources are completely lost --- surely some former employee must have a disk of some of them flying around! Heck, I got half of the sources of the original AGI interpreter, and I'm not even an employee.
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Marten
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« Reply #45 on: September 21, 2006, 09:25:29 PM »

Yet we know that Sierra threw out the art prints for backgrounds of their VGA games...

I'm not so surprised to know the sources were lost.

But fortunately, most of their games can be reverse-compiled into something similar to source.
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Caliburn
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« Reply #46 on: September 22, 2006, 02:32:35 AM »

This thread makes me wish that Vivendi had outsourced the Sierra compilations to a fan with programming skills, and given said person access to whatever could be found in their archives.  Such a skilled fan could probably even be persuaded to work abnormally cheaply out of sheer enthusiasm for the material.  Then maybe we'd have something more along the lines of what Marten and NewRisingSun suggest.

Of course, I'd settle for at least having compilations that weren't missing obvious inclusions like the AGI versions and LSL7.

To add to the wishlist, I think I'd echo NRS' desire for a Win32 SCI interpreter.  Since this is a business venture, and whatever money Vivendi poured into the compilations would have to eventually bring in a greater return, the most future-looking way of going about this would be to expand the scope beyond just a Win32 interpreter, and write the code to make it more easily portable to different operating systems.  That way, if something like the Nintendo Wii eventually takes off (with its point-and-click friendly remote), you've done a decent chunk of the work already to be able to sell old Sierra games to a new audience.  This programming could be done internally or Vivendi could pay the existing FreeSCI project and support them with any original code so that they could make the interpreter as perfect as it can be.

Quote from: Marten
Yet we know that Sierra threw out the art prints for backgrounds of their VGA games...


Yeah, remember when several of those were being sold through eBay (after someone fished them out of a dumpster)?  To my sorrow, I didn't have the money to buy any at the time, but I assume they all found good homes.

I wonder where they are now. . . . It's seems likely that at least some of them ended up in the hands of fans who are active in the online communities.  Anyone care to brag? Smiley

Take care,
-Luke
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Alistair
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« Reply #47 on: September 22, 2006, 05:45:28 AM »

I saw a couple of them (art prints) on SierraGamers, they went for a hell of a lot.

Isn't there a Sega Master System KQ1 as well?

As for the QuestStudios FAQ, it's become pretty simple these days- use DOSBox for newer games, NAGI for older ones.

Besides, QuestStudios has never been a place where people come for tech support.

- Alistair
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glendower
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« Reply #48 on: September 22, 2006, 02:11:34 PM »

Quote from: Alistair
I saw a couple of them (art prints) on SierraGamers, they went for a hell of a lot.

Isn't there a Sega Master System KQ1 as well?

As for the QuestStudios FAQ, it's become pretty simple these days- use DOSBox for newer games, NAGI for older ones.

Besides, QuestStudios has never been a place where people come for tech support.

- Alistair


Yep! There are a couple of the Master System KQ games on ebay right now! I had no idea Smiley I don't see a sierra logo on the box anywhere, though. Interesting.
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jbltecnicspro
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« Reply #49 on: October 23, 2006, 03:26:01 AM »

Quote from: Alistair
I saw a couple of them (art prints) on SierraGamers, they went for a hell of a lot.

Isn't there a Sega Master System KQ1 as well?

As for the QuestStudios FAQ, it's become pretty simple these days- use DOSBox for newer games, NAGI for older ones.

Besides, QuestStudios has never been a place where people come for tech support.

- Alistair

Yep! There are a couple of the Master System KQ games on ebay right now! I had no idea Smiley I don't see a sierra logo on the box anywhere, though. Interesting.

Yeah, boardgame companies published the Master System KQ games...  Though I can say with 100% certainty that they absolutely suck. 
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