What about this: CM-1000 project ;)

[shad0wfax]

We all know that Roland's CM-series (Computer Music) of music modules are re-packaged versions of some of the most popular Roland gear among gamers (mainly the MT-32 and the Sound Canvas SC-55). A total of 5 different CM modules were produced, covering nearly every possible combination:

1) CM-32L: enhanced MT-32
2) CM-32P: cut-down version of U-110
3) CM-64: CM-32L + CM-32P
4) CM-300: SC-55 MkI
5) CM-500: CM-32L + CM-300

Although the CM-500 seems to be the best and the most complete package, as it also provides a CM-64 mode, it's NOT a true CM-64 because it lacks the "real" CM-32P circuitry. True, the CM-64 standard was virtually unused (I only can think about a few games of japanese standards such as Sharp's X68000), but it's interesting after all, as it provides very good sounds IMO (I've always said that although it has very few sounds -and no drums-, they are better than their SC-55 counterparts).

Well, what it's evident is that the CM-series lacks some kind of "super CM module", let's call it CM-1000, that combines the CM-32L + CM-32P + CM-300. My idea is that someone with enough technical skills would be able to produce this module, combining the mainboards of the CM-32L, CM-32P and CM-300, and making the necessary circiutry for the proper routing of electrical, audio and midi signals (maybe via a selector such as the one that the CM-500 has). This probably wouldn't be very difficult if you have the circuitry schematics. Maybe the most difficult part would be biulding a suitable case for hosting the 3 mainboards plus the extra circuitry.

If I had more free time maybe I would start thinking about trying to do this, but sadly enough I've got very little free time and I prefer using it to make music. But the idea is cool

[Cloudschatze]

Roland CM-1000, Modular[/u]

Product may vary slightly from item shown.

[Juho Sippola]

Cloudschatze's LA madness.

Too bad that finding a proper editor for those (apart from Dr. T with its archaic user interface and DOS requirement) is very difficult. You could do quite an UFO attack composition with that pile of equipment.

Somehow it reminds of Fairlight CMI...

[shad0wfax]

WOW! What a LA-futuristic-madness-lab!! A bit too much modular, I would say...

[Ari]

W O W ! ! !  :shock:

What do you do with all that stuff?? connect them all together to produce one monsterous chord with 512 note polyphony??

[Alkarion]

You photoshopped that, I know it.  

Seriously, this must be the largest concentration of Roland LA synths on the planet!

Sorry shad0fax for derailing this thread. It's all Cloudschatze's fault.

@Juho Sippola: There is also Midi Quest.

[Great Hierophant]

1) CM-32L: enhanced MT-32
2) CM-32P: cut-down version of U-110
3) CM-64: CM-32L + CM-32P
4) CM-300: SC-55 MkI
5) CM-500: CM-32L + CM-300

Although the CM-500 seems to be the best and the most complete package, as it also provides a CM-64 mode, it's NOT a true CM-64 because it lacks the "real" CM-32P circuitry. True, the CM-64 standard was virtually unused (I only can think about a few games of japanese standards such as Sharp's X68000), but it's interesting after all, as it provides very good sounds IMO (I've always said that although it has very few sounds -and no drums-, they are better than their SC-55 counterparts).

Well, what it's evident is that the CM-series lacks some kind of "super CM module", let's call it CM-1000, that combines the CM-32L + CM-32P + CM-300. My idea is that someone with enough technical skills would be able to produce this module, combining the mainboards of the CM-32L, CM-32P and CM-300, and making the necessary circiutry for the proper routing of electrical, audio and midi signals (maybe via a selector such as the one that the CM-500 has). This probably wouldn't be very difficult if you have the circuitry schematics. Maybe the most difficult part would be biulding a suitable case for hosting the 3 mainboards plus the extra circuitry.

I shall ignore Clouds' humbling Roland collection and concentrate on the original post.  A CM-64 does literally combine the CM-32L and CM-32P boards.  I just wish there was a switch to turn off either board.  Now, as for the GS component, I would prefer using SC-55mkII hardware instead of the SC-55 based CM-300.  Also, most if not all of the GS circuitry is contained on a daughtercard in the CM-500.  Now, if you used a SCB-55 daughtercard, you would be all set and all you had to do was to insert that into a CM-64.  Quite the challenge to wire of course.

[Cloudschatze]

None of the stuff in the photo is even connected, and was only arranged to fulfill an artful purpose. Photoshop was used to adjust the levels - that's it.

My first idea was to place both a CM-64 and 500 in a cardboard box, cut out holes for the volume knobs, and write "Roland CM-1000" with a Sharpie pen. Maybe with a backwards "R" or something.


To address the topic, I still think one of the better solutions is to simply use an MPU-105 MIDI output selector and a little mixer (both in the photo). While you're still left with separate modules, you have the option of switching off their MIDI input individually. Besides, the 105 has LEDs. Everybody loves LEDs.

Otherwise, any combination efforts will likely require some sort of control ROM, akin to that inside the CM-500.

[jbltecnicspro]

I shall ignore Clouds' humbling Roland collection and concentrate on the original post.  A CM-64 does literally combine the CM-32L and CM-32P boards.  I just wish there was a switch to turn off either board.  Now, as for the GS component, I would prefer using SC-55mkII hardware instead of the SC-55 based CM-300.  Also, most if not all of the GS circuitry is contained on a daughtercard in the CM-500.  Now, if you used a SCB-55 daughtercard, you would be all set and all you had to do was to insert that into a CM-64.  Quite the challenge to wire of course.

If we're going to fantasize about a super CM Module, why not replace the SC-55 series with one of the higher-end SC-88 modules?  Hell, we could even get FULL GS and LA compatability by putting in a smaller SC-8820 board, or if we have the space, the 8850 board.

[Great Hierophant]

In Cloud's picture, I see from left to right, the following devices standing on their sides:

CM-500
CM-64
CM-32LN
unknown
CM-32LN
CM-64
unknown CM

below them I see three MT-32s, but I can't make out the device under the computer, the two panel devices next to the CA-30.  What are they all?

[Cloudschatze]

What are they all?

CM-500 (GS)
CM-64
CM-32LN
Unisys 486 PC
CM-32LN
CM-64
CM-500 (GM/GS)

MT-32 (x3)

CA-30
CN-20
CF-10

Under the monitor is an MPU-105, and in the middle of the desk is a wee, Midiman 10-channel mixer.

Again, please don't mistake this for a realistic setup...

[Great Hierophant]

What differences are there, if any, between a GM/GS CM-500 and a GS only CM-500?  (I think someone once said that a GS only device wouldn't respond to a GM reset command and thats about it?) What would this mean in practical terms?

[Cloudschatze]

What differences are there, if any, between a GM/GS CM-500 and a GS only CM-500?  (I think someone once said that a GS only device wouldn't respond to a GM reset command and thats about it?) What would this mean in practical terms?

It's not that it won't respond to a GM Reset - they're simply interpreted as GS Resets.

In practical terms, it's always in GS mode. If a game soundtrack happened to use GS commands, but the game sends out a GM Reset when loading, the non-GM CM-500 will still respond to the GS commands, whereas the GM/GS CM-500 will not.

I'm not aware of any "real world" examples of such a scenario, but it's nice to think that they might exist.

[Great Hierophant]

It's not that it won't respond to a GM Reset - they're simply interpreted as GS Resets.

In practical terms, it's always in GS mode. If a game soundtrack happened to use GS commands, but the game sends out a GM Reset when loading, the non-GM CM-500 will still respond to the GS commands, whereas the GM/GS CM-500 will not.

I'm not aware of any "real world" examples of such a scenario, but it's nice to think that they might exist.

In practical terms, it doesn't make the slightest difference.  If the midi file is GM only, it won't take advantage of GS features.  If it is GS, then any instruction telling the device to go into GS mode would be superflous and the midi would play normally.  

But why would a game, or any midi file for that matter, use GS commands after putting the device into the GM only mode?  My guess is that the sound track is for GS devices but the user selected a GM only device driver in the install menu.  One would hope that if the user selected a GS device, the game would not send a GM Reset command.

[Cloudschatze]

But why...

It's hypothetical, but based on NewRisingSun's finding of GS commands within the Space Quest V soundtrack. If not for the fact that Sierra's interpreter doesn't handle/recognize these events, this would be an example of what I was referring to.

[NewRisingSUn]

SQ5 sends GS reset, not GM reset. The "GS commands" are just drum set changes, which SIERRA.EXE's playback routine ignores.

[Great Hierophant]

SQ5 sends GS reset, not GM reset. The "GS commands" are just drum set changes, which SIERRA.EXE's playback routine ignores.

In short, while the midi files may be able to take some advantage of the GS features, the game's executable prevents them from being sent to the midi device.  If this is so, does a patch exist that disables this functionality of the executable?

[Cloudschatze]

SQ5 sends GS reset...

Ah, interesting. I've always (apparently falsely) believed that Sierra titles just sent a GM System On. Do they all send GS Resets?

If it's just SQ5, I wonder if it might have something to do with Dynamix...

[NewRisingSUn]

If this is so, does a patch exist that disables this functionality of the executable?

No.

Do they all send GS Resets? If it's just SQ5, I wonder if it might have something to do with Dynamix...

No Sierra/Dynamix game I've seen ever sends GM Reset. Most send GS Reset, and a few no sysex at all.

As for sound card support, Dynamix indeed is (was) the dumbest company under the sun.

I've never seen a copy of The Incredible Machine (DOS) that works with the "General MIDI" option, at least unpatched (it just doesn't play anything). I patched my copy, but I wonder how that got by their "QA".
Also, the Roland MT-32 option plays on channels 1 and 11-16, so you don't hear all channels. Duh!

But "Front Page Sports: Baseball '94" really is the straw that breaks the camel's back. To quote the "read.me" file:

Support for the Roland LAPC-1 [sic] and MT-32 and for General MIDI devices as stated on page 10 of the manual has been removed, since these cards are not capable of providing the digital sound effects used by Baseball.

Hello?! Ever heard of General MIDI/MT-32 plus Sound Blaster? Sierra had done that since '91, but Dynamix apparently never got the memo. They even used the HMI sound system for that game, which perfectly supports different devices for MIDI music and digital sound effects. But does Dynamix make use of that ability? No, they replace the standard HMI setup program, the one that allows that selection, which their own crappy program. The same "read.me" file states that menu music had been removed because of "memory conflicts". What memory --- the one in your computer, or the one in that well-armored orb atop your shoulders?!
This is the kind of mindless stupidity that just just makes you want to bang your head against the wall.

[Cloudschatze]

Ever heard of General MIDI/MT-32 plus Sound Blaster?

This would have been very welcome for the CD-ROM version of Willy Beamish. The MT-32 option was removed from it as well, forcing you with the FM soundtrack.

They almost make up for it by having some of the best voice acting/narration I've heard in a computer game...