King's Quest IV - MIDI tracks don't properly stop

[Sedryn]

I'm playing King's Quest IV on a Pentium I 75MHz PC, using MS-DOS 6.22.  I have the game configured to use Roland MT-32 for sound.  I'm using a Roland MPU-IPC-T, jumper settings are MIDI set to 330 and the IRQ set to 2.  It's connected to a Roland CM-64 module.  I have also have a SoundBlaster AWE64 Gold installed: SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 H5 P300 E620 T6.  There doesn't seem to be any resource conflicts and the SoundBlaster isn't used for King's Quest IV, unless you count the fact that the device is initialized and the output from the CM-64 goes to the Line-In on the SoundBlaster.

This setup seems to work find with King's Quest V and VI.  MIDI tracks start and stop properly with those games.  However, with King's Quest IV, the MIDI will often hang on a note if I interrupt a musical score by saving the game, or walking to the next screen, etc.  I then have to power off and power back my CM-64 again.

Has anybody else encountered this problem?  Any suggestions on fixing it would be welcome.

[Marten]

Did you already patch the games specifically to permit the MT-32 (or in this case, CM-64) to operate through your Sound Blaster?  The original Sierra driver is intended to operate with a device connected to a genuine MPU-401 and may not work correctly through the Sound Blaster without the "Sierra Blaster MIDI Port Utility", written by Anders Olsson, and found on this page:  http://www.queststudios.com/roland/utilities.html

[Sedryn]

The CM-64 is connected to the Roland MPU-IPC-T.

The SoundBlaster MIDI isn't being used in this scenario.

Thanks for your input, though.  To answer your question, yes I am aware that the patch is needed if you're using a the SoundBlaster MIDI port.

[Marten]

OK.  My apologies for not reading your original question carefully enough.  I feel dumb now.

I wish that I had a solution for you but I cannot think of one.  Maybe Tom will have an idea. 

[parazythum]

Maybe you should use a CPU-time-killer like MOSLO, SlowDOS, CPUKiller...

[HondaSiR]

This setup seems to work find with King's Quest V and VI.  MIDI tracks start and stop properly with those games.  However, with King's Quest IV, the MIDI will often hang on a note if I interrupt a musical score by saving the game, or walking to the next screen, etc.

Have you considered your copy of KQ4 to be corrupted? Did you by any chance download it from an abandonware site?

[Alistair]

Uh, Honda, I don't see why a downloaded version would be corrupt, and even so, why it would have any bearing on the music.

Anyway, my solution would be- use the Sound Blaster card! I've had a friend who used a MPU IPC with no success, and the SB did the job. I don't see any use in using the MPU for some nostalgic reason, give the SB a go.

- Alistair

[Tom]

I've not tried KQ4 with a MPU-IPC-T or CM-64, but never had a problem with the MT-32 and MPU-IPC in use.  The only thing I can remotely question is the integrity of the MPU-IPC-T in combination with Sierra's MT-32 driver for the game.  Perhaps try substituting the MT32.DRV file with one from LSL2, SQ3, HQ, or some other game from that era?  I know of others that had no problems with a MPU-IPC and MPU-401 connected to a CM-64.

[Sedryn]

I've not tried KQ4 with a MPU-IPC-T or CM-64, but never had a problem with the MT-32 and MPU-IPC in use.  The only thing I can remotely question is the integrity of the MPU-IPC-T in combination with Sierra's MT-32 driver for the game.  Perhaps try substituting the MT32.DRV file with one from LSL2, SQ3, HQ, or some other game from that era?  I know of others that had no problems with a MPU-IPC and MPU-401 connected to a CM-64.

I'd actually considered trying this out, so now that you've recommended it I'll give it a go!

To answer the question about where I got the game.  The version of King's Quest IV I'm playing came off the King's Quest Collection II CD-ROM set that I purchased off eBay about two years ago.  The CD-ROM passed a surface scan with ISO Buster and the game files installed properly so I'm pretty sure there are no corrupt game files.

[HondaSiR]

Uh, Honda, I don't see why a downloaded version would be corrupt, and even so, why it would have any bearing on the music.

Ever wonder why the regulars at Vogons don't entertain and are openly annoyed at tech support questions when they learn that the game in question was downloaded from an abandonware site? It's not just copyright issues. They believe that it would be difficult to offer help wherein the game files might not be 100% complete or accurate to begin with. Most if not all games there are uploaded by users not connected with the original game company and chances are the program or files may have been altered by the previous user (intentionally or not).

Anyhow, I find nothing wrong with Sedryn's hardware setup. KQ5 and 6 works well...so should KQ4.  I think Tom may be right regarding  the drivers. It's certainly worth trying out.

[Sedryn]

Guest what .... an alternate MT32.DRV driver fixed the problem!  I actually used an MT32.DRV from an older version of King's Quest IV.

Apparently, there's a different MT32.DRV for each revision of the SCI version of King's Quest IV.  There are three alternate revisions of the MT32.DRV other than the one I was using available in the PASSIGAR sets (yes, not entirely legit to acquire them in file sharing, but I did pay for the game so I think I should be allowed to get a different version of the driver if the provided one doesn't work!).

Right stat is the version of King's Quest IV the driver came from and left stat is the date of the driver:

v0.000.502    8/9/1989     (This is the one I was using that had the problem - it came from the King's Quest Collection II CD-ROM)
v0.000.409    11/29/1988  (This is the one I'm using now)
v0.000.274    9/23/1988
v0.000.253    9/16/1988

So, I just replaced the existing driver with the next oldest one and viola!  The MIDI now starts and stops correctly.

Thanks for the suggestion, Tom.  I was thinking about trying this before you mentioned it but your recommendation is what compelled me to actually do it!

 

[Great Hierophant]

It is just possible that different versions of KQIV require different drivers to work properly due to minor differences in the interpreter.  By the way, if you are using a CM-64, you will hear some unintended sounds in KQIV unless you use a driver from a later game or silence channels 11-16. 

[Tom]

Glad to hear this helped.  I had problems with a MT32.DRV file in Quest For Glory 4 and tried this 'swap' technique...which solved my problem.  And I know others here have mentioned swapping MT32.DRV files to solve issues they've had.

[Alistair]

Ever wonder why the regulars at Vogons don't entertain and are openly annoyed at tech support questions when they learn that the game in question was downloaded from an abandonware site? It's not just copyright issues. They believe that it would be difficult to offer help wherein the game files might not be 100% complete or accurate to begin with. Most if not all games there are uploaded by users not connected with the original game company and chances are the program or files may have been altered by the previous user (intentionally or not).

There's only two reasons:

1. They don't want any trouble from legal bodies/lawyers
2. They get so many posts, it's a way of filtering and thinning them a bit.


I don't agree at all, Honda- before I obtained legal copies of the games, I had just about every Sierra game downloaded. They all worked, and sound problems I had were my lack of understanding at the time.

The only file alteration I've ever experienced is cracks to remove or disable copy protection. No Sierra game I've ever downloaded has ever had bugs or anything weird. I'm annoyed by the constant suggestion from people online that abandonware games would somehow make things not work, like sound not working. It's plain illogical- they're the same game.

- Alistair

[Marten]

Alistair,

Your personal experience can not be sufficient to extrapolate into a rule for all.

[Sedryn]

It is just possible that different versions of KQIV require different drivers to work properly due to minor differences in the interpreter.  By the way, if you are using a CM-64, you will hear some unintended sounds in KQIV unless you use a driver from a later game or silence channels 11-16. 

Ahhhh, thank you!  Now, I understand what I've been hearing in the intro!!!

However, I have an alternate cure on the way.  I recently managed to acquire a 2nd generation MT-32!  I think I will just use that unit for King's Quest IV and games from the same era.

That brings me to another question.  Does anybody have a list of which games that actually utilize the extra sounds from the CM-32L / CM-64?  Perhaps that should be in another thread?  The information would be useful.  If I had a list, I would use the MT-32 for all the games that don't utilize the additional sounds in the CM-32L / CM-64.

[Alistair]

(Sorry to off-topic-icise, I'll post in brackets.

Marten, thanks for clearing that up, not.

Really, it's got nothing to do with personal experience- it's to do with common sense. How can someone's rip of game disks be any way different from the game disks themselves? Especially, with regards to how music is playing?
Only way that's possible is if the sound resources are missing, or drivers are missing. That just won't happen.

The only reason people talk about abandonware downloads possibly causing problems is because they either possibly don't understand what they're talking about, or because they have some agenda about abandonware, or pressures about it.

There are of course exceptions, some downloads are notoriously incomplete, but they're usually CD games, like SQ6CD. A game like KQ4 is unlikely to have any such problems.

I'm sorry if I'm coming across rude, it's not my intention. I like you guys {Honda/Marten]. I just like things to be based on fact. I hear a lot of nonsense bandied around about downloaded versions, and the problem I mainly have is that it's never backed up with anything, just superstition, I guess you could call it.

- Alistair)

[HondaSiR]

That brings me to another question.  Does anybody have a list of which games that actually utilize the extra sounds from the CM-32L / CM-64?  Perhaps that should be in another thread?  The information would be useful.  If I had a list, I would use the MT-32 for all the games that don't utilize the additional sounds in the CM-32L / CM-64.

Here are the games that I know so far that support the extra sound effects of the CM-32L/CM-64/CM-500/LAPC-I. Info taken from VOGONS:

Hook
Lure of the Temptress
Curse of Enchantia
Laser Squad
Ultima Underworld 1
Starlord
Beneath A Steel Sky
Megatraveller 2
Out of This World (DOS version)
Leisure Suit Larry 5
ATAC
Die Hard 2
Gods (Bitmap Brothers)
Elite Plus (great SFX!)
EPIC
Line Wars II
Pirates! Gold
Heimdall
Night Breed
Night Breed: Interactive Movie
Terminator 2: Judgement Days
Cadaver: Payoff
Pushover
Robocop 3
Elf

[Ari]

Honda,
I think what Sedryn meant was whether or not we know of any games that use the CM-64's PCM part alongside the LA part.

If that is indeed what you were asking, Sedryn, I don't personally know of any game that makes use of both parts. Maybe there are such games in the Japanese video/computer game scene, but I'm not familiar with any.

[Marten]

Really, it's got nothing to do with personal experience- it's to do with common sense. How can someone's rip of game disks be any way different from the game disks themselves? Especially, with regards to how music is playing?
Only way that's possible is if the sound resources are missing, or drivers are missing. That just won't happen.

Continuing Off-Topic Discussion:

While I agree with you that KQ4 is an unlikely candidate for this situation to happen, you've taken "unlikely" and moved to the extreme of "That just won't happen", which is where I take mild issue.  It is still just "unlikely", not "won't happen."

CD games aren't the only games that I've seen incomplete rips on.  During the 90s, game cracking groups would often install a game from floppy to their hard drive, then repackage what was installed to the hard drive after breaking the copy protection, and upload that package to a BBS.  The problem with that:  Oftentimes, the installer wouldn't install all of the files.  It would only install the files needed for the player's specific hardware setup.  Because the rip was not of the actual disks, but from an installation... files would be missed.

Sierra did install all of the files from the floppy regardless of which files were needed, which was a bane back then (they were being lazy and wasting precious hard drive space) yet a blessing today, interestingly enough.  However, from a purists point of view, it is still difficult to recreate the original floppy images from an installed Sierra game because the you can't always figure out which disks contained which files, and Sierra's installer always renamed at least one file during install to the hard drive.

Side Off-Topic Discussion:

OK, that's twice "VOGONS" has been mentioned.  What is it?

On-Topic Discussion:

Three cheers for Tom, and congrats to Sedryn for his problem being resolved!