Freeing these Waveblaster Cards

[Laust]

Did you check that the +/- 12V supply is giving a reliable voltage, also under load (when playing something)?

[Synthesized]

Did you check that the +/- 12V supply is giving a reliable voltage, also under load (when playing something)?

I didn't think to test it while playing.

Checking the voltage with my multimeter while playing gives +11.90 and -11.92 volts, it so that looks ok.

The +5v rail is at 4.82, which is probably getting a bit low.  I might see if I can rig up a switch mode regulator instead of the 7805.  That might take me a while to get the parts though.

[mace]

Did you check that the +/- 12V supply is giving a reliable voltage, also under load (when playing something)?

I didn't think to test it while playing.

Checking the voltage with my multimeter while playing gives +11.90 and -11.92 volts, it so that looks ok.

The +5v rail is at 4.82, which is probably getting a bit low.  I might see if I can rig up a switch mode regulator instead of the 7805.  That might take me a while to get the parts though.

I'm pretty sure the 7805 is not up to the task, the DB50 especially needs a beefy 5v supply, you could try to use a 78S05, which is the 2 amp version and a drop-in replacement, but maybe your 9v transformer is just not up to spec.

[Laust]

2A for the DB50XG?!?  it's rated 2W, and at 5 volts, that makes 0.4A.  A regular 7805 is plenty. However, if you read 4.82 without load, perhaps you have a bad one. Try replacing it with another 7805, then check the voltages again. Checking under load will give the most useful figures.

You don't need switch mode supplies for this stuff, all it's going to do is (potentially) add more noise...

[Synthesized]

the 4.82 for the 5v line was the figure under load.

I replaced the 7805 with one from a different manufacturer, this new one gives 4.98 - 5.01 volts under load, the problem is still the same however.

That would suggest it's not the power supply, it just looks like the card decides to set it's output volume to be stupidly loud for some reason, which causes clipping on the line in. (like when a recording has been mastered way too loud and the speakers can't drive it and it clips)

On the breakout boards used by others, do they just have a direct connection between the audio out on the waveblaster and the line in on the PC or whatever?
The c't design has a 270ohm resistor and the elektor has a trimpot, would they be required?  I didn't think so since the DB50XG just has a pair if ordinary opamps that are more than up to the task of driving a line in port. (same for the SCB-55)

[mace]

the 4.82 for the 5v line was the figure under load.

I replaced the 7805 with one from a different manufacturer, this new one gives 4.98 - 5.01 volts under load, the problem is still the same however.

That would suggest it's not the power supply, it just looks like the card decides to set it's output volume to be stupidly loud for some reason, which causes clipping on the line in. (like when a recording has been mastered way too loud and the speakers can't drive it and it clips)

On the breakout boards used by others, do they just have a direct connection between the audio out on the waveblaster and the line in on the PC or whatever?
The c't design has a 270ohm resistor and the elektor has a trimpot, would they be required?  I didn't think so since the DB50XG just has a pair if ordinary opamps that are more than up to the task of driving a line in port. (same for the SCB-55)

I run it directly from the DB into my mixer.

BTW: Clipping does not occur at the speakers, it can occur in the DAC or in the amplifier.
The sinewave is flattened at the top and/or bottom and starts to resemble a squarewave, it literally looks like the top has been clipped off, hence the name.


If your speaker clips it means it has reached it's Xmax, which is very bad because it shorts the coil, resulting in a nasty loud pop, and possibly speaker damage.
This usually does not happen if your amplifier isn't malfunctioning.

You could try to run a resistor in series, however, resistors aren't exactly linear in their behavior and can introduce distortion, also it kinda messes up the impendance characteristics.
Not a terribly good idea, but worth a shot.

Oh, and if the DAC on the DB50 is clipping, well, then you should try editing your midi files to a lower volume, because no resistor can help there.

[Laust]

If you have a scope, you can see where it clips, DAC output (which is probably DAC input, really, ie. digital domain), opamp output, or only on your sound card's input. Resistors will solve the third issue, so I'd try that.  You can't do much about the first two, except play your MIDIs at a lower level.

[Synthesized]

I don't have a scope, so I can't try that.  I might make up a cable with built in resistors and see what that does. 

The weird thing is, the same midi file, played in the same program behaves fine when the synthesizer is plugged in to the AWE32 on my old dos computer.
IIRC the Line outs on the synth go into the hardware dac on the soundblaster where it is mixed with the digital audio, and then it comes out on the line out. The audio level seems to be fine there, no clipping.

Maybe my line in port on my main pc is crap, I'll try connecting the synth to something else.

[Laust]

You could try to run a resistor in series, however, resistors aren't exactly linear in their behavior and can introduce distortion, also it kinda messes up the impendance characteristics.
Not a terribly good idea, but worth a shot.

What isn't linear about a resistor in the audible frequency range?

[Synthesized]

It looks like it's the line-in on my PC.  When I hook it up to other devices I can turn down the input volume enough so that it doesn't clip.  I'll need to build an external mixer or something. I guess the line-in on my PC doesn't have fine enough control, because it's set as low as I can.

I need one anyway, now that I have this and a CM-32L.

Thanks for the help guys.

[ajmetz]

Hi people - you lost me with some of the technical talk I'm afraid, as I'm no engineer.
But I do have and love my DB50XG.=)
Currently on the back of an AWE32 with 8Mb Sample DRAM.=)

Anyhow, one of the reasons I love the DB50XG, is all the sounds, effects, and functionality I get out of it when using the XG Gold software (I've a registered copy of Version 3.00),which uses it to emulate the QS300 4-part sounds, and much more. =)

I'm upgrading my computer at the moment, and leaving the world of ISA soundcards behind. =P
Or am I?
My love of the card means I was about to invest in one of ARS Tech's ISA to USB cards:
www.arstech.com
But it is a bit pricey!

So some questions:

1) Is it worth doing some research to build my own DB50XG external module?
Following your examples, or asking you for help? =P

2) Where some of you have achieved an external DB50XG, do you find it's still possible to run a programme like XG Gold and achieve all those great QS300 sounds from it? I.e. does it all work via MIDI, or does it suffer from not being in the machine? =P

Thanks in advance. =)

[Synthesized]

So some questions:

1) Is it worth doing some research to build my own DB50XG external module?
Following your examples, or asking you for help? =P

2) Where some of you have achieved an external DB50XG, do you find it's still possible to run a programme like XG Gold and achieve all those great QS300 sounds from it? I.e. does it all work via MIDI, or does it suffer from not being in the machine? =P

Thanks in advance. =)

I wouldn't bother with the USB2ISA thing.  There is no telling if it will even work and it would be cheaper to buy an external synth module anyway.

I knew only a little about electronics when I started my Waveblaster board, there is plenty of tutorials around the internet.  If you look around you should be able to find the elektor article with the circuit diagram.  I don't have it with me at the moment so I can't post it.

The waveblaster board is not complicated. All you need is a dual rail 12v power supply, a 5v supply and an optocoupler.  I designed my own based on the elektor article. I was thinking of making another but using a different (and probably cheaper) method to get the power. Mine was a bit expensive, as I had a PCB made and used some obscure parts (MAX743).

XG Gold operates over MIDI, so it will still work even if it's not inside the computer.

[ajmetz]

After you mentioned a sound module, I did some research, and discovered the MU10, and promptly bought one on eBay. =D Yay!

=P Only *horrible* signal to noise ratio. I can't have the volume any higher than half way! Otherwise there's a tonne of fuzz! =P

I remember some tutorials online allowing you to bypass the soundcard the DB50XG sits on, by soldering a connection to an output jack, straight onto two parts of the DB50XG, to the end of making the output far less noisy than it would be had it gone through the host card as normal.

Is there any such solution for an MU10, to improve the signal to noise ratio? =P

[TheMAN]

Hi people - you lost me with some of the technical talk I'm afraid, as I'm no engineer.
But I do have and love my DB50XG.=)
Currently on the back of an AWE32 with 8Mb Sample DRAM.=)

Anyhow, one of the reasons I love the DB50XG, is all the sounds, effects, and functionality I get out of it when using the XG Gold software (I've a registered copy of Version 3.00),which uses it to emulate the QS300 4-part sounds, and much more. =)

I'm upgrading my computer at the moment, and leaving the world of ISA soundcards behind. =P
Or am I?
My love of the card means I was about to invest in one of ARS Tech's ISA to USB cards:
www.arstech.com
But it is a bit pricey!

So some questions:

1) Is it worth doing some research to build my own DB50XG external module?
Following your examples, or asking you for help? =P

2) Where some of you have achieved an external DB50XG, do you find it's still possible to run a programme like XG Gold and achieve all those great QS300 sounds from it? I.e. does it all work via MIDI, or does it suffer from not being in the machine? =P

Thanks in advance. =)

go the way I'm going... I just bought a cheapo "pos" Dynex DX-SC51 off ebay for $11.50 shipped... it uses the VIA Tremor chip (a derivative of the Envy24 lineup)... it is the ONLY modern (as in within the past 2 years) sound card I've found so far that even have a wave blaster connector

yeah, there's better sound cards and they all don't have the ability to run a DB50XG (also just got off ebay)... the only good ones now are no longer made and it takes luck to even find those

so it's either this "crappy" sound card, or to spend lots of time (and some money) to build that box (which I would if I had time but I don't these days).... the two only realistic choices these days... the cheap sound card route seems more practical to me though


anyhow, it's still an upgrade over the "crappy" realtek avance 97 onboard crap I've been using over the years.... never cared to spend money on upgrading it to an actual sound card (there were other priorities on my money over the years )... I never cared much for the PCI sound cards ever since the very first generation ones left a bad taste after seeing all my friends had trouble with them back in the days... wanting to run the DB50XG forced me to look for an affordable/usable PCI sound card finally

yeah, I'm a cheap *** and proud of it 

[ajmetz]

Hey - I was cheap ass too. ^_^ I got my MU10 quite cheaply, and it does everything my DB50XG did.....but wait for it...(!).

I really missed my AWE32. =P

I thought I could just use the soundbanks (*.sbk and *.sf2) with Reason on a Mac, but the filters just didn't sound as good. ^_^

So I finally stopped being a cheap ass...and have just blown around £250 on SSI2_ISA and SSI2_HostCB, and all the associated enclosures, power adapters, power modules, cables, etc. I even bought a couple of things I might not need [ if you need low currents you get a power module, if you need high currents you get an external power adapter - I got both, and an extra enclosure in case the first one was too small] just to be on the safe side. I'm looking forwards to getting all my Win98 software, such as Vienna SoundFont Studio and the Voyetra SUPER SAPI FM Driver up and running on my cheapass £50 laptop I got off of ebay....=). As I wrote on my Facebook status - I've just spent £250 to get a £1 soundcard working on a £50 laptop. ;-)

I am truly insane.
But my point is - I will report back here and let you know if the ARS Technology stuff actually works with an ISA Sound Blaster or not. ^_^

Finally - i was a cheap skate when it came to postage, and opted for USPS, which I've been told can take 1 to 4 weeks. So at worst, it'll be a month until I recieve it.

[ajmetz]

Thought I ought to update you all...
Arstech sent a faulty SSI2_ISA over, and only half an enclosure.
I eventually got a working SSI2_ISA and USB2ISA card, and the rest of the enclosure,
only suddenly found that the software wouldn't auto-detect/assign the AWE32 any resources.
The software wouldn't let me add resources for SSI2_ISA - well it would, but the window would keep loosing focus, and resetting all the resources I had just allocated. Whilst the USB2ISA product fared better, and allowed me to assign up to 4 resources, but the AWE32 needs about five or six..and it would always crash when loading a fifth. So I decided to leave the CD interface and Gameport Joystick resources alone, and just load the main sound ones, and after editing the inf files, it loaded fine in the Enumerator, but Windows didn't detect it. =P

The people at Arstech are good at email communication, and I dare say in a few weeks I'll get round to asking for advice on how to get my AWE32 running with this stuff...although I might buy a AWE64 Gold and see if that gets auto-detected.

But for now, I can't really be bothered fiddling about - so I bought an old IBM ThinkPad laptop with an ISA docking station, for only £32 on ebay - and bob's ya' uncle. ^_^ Got an ISA soundcard in a laptop.
Only problem is it's damn heavy, and the docking station itself emits a loud whining sound whenever its idle. =P

If I do eventually get the USB2ISA working, I'll post a further update.
I was testing on a b2154 laptop - results can vary on different computers and OSes.

[JK1974]

Hi,

thanks a lot for the information on this specific topic. I was just about to give away my DB50XG until I found so many enthusiastic users of it.

That´s why I also started building this circuit. I used the Elektor version and not the c´t one because from the latter one, no PCB was available at www.emedia.de, and the JPG I got was scaled. Instead, I found www.geist-electronic.de who sell the PCB as well as the components of the Elektor version at http://portal.gs-shop.de/200/cgi-bin/portal.dll?AnbieterID=9187&Seite=frameset.htm if you enter "DB50XG" as search term.

However, I am not really satisfied with the result. As I want to use the DB50XG more for music and less for gaming issues, I am distracted by a clearly noticeable hum. Did you also notice this? (BTW: I am from Germany, which means PAL country = 50 Hz).

I have talked to one colleague and he said that it clearly sounds like hum from the transformer and that he recommends replacing the 1000 µF capacitors against bigger ones (like 10.000 µF) to get rid of this hum. What´s your opinion on this? I am not an electrician, that´s why I am interested on some more feedback.

I have checked all solderings, so I think the board is okay.

Unfortunately, I have just replaced my Terratec soundcards (as they are not Vista compatible anymore) that offered a waveblaster connector, so I can´t quickly check if the DB50XG daugtherboard is faulty. On the other side, having not connected the DB50XG, there is no hum at all. And turning the potentionmeters with the DB50XG, does not also boost the DB50XG volume but also the hum. Of course, I can imagine that the behaviour of the transformer also influences the sound that is output by the DB50XG.

Thanks a lot for any hints in advance on how to solve this.

[Cloudschatze]

Wave Blaster Rack

I finally got around to putting this thing together. It's not particularly ingenious or anything - just four MIDITEMP DoX-BoX enclosures mounted to a rack shelf - but it is, at least, an elegant solution for using several MIDI daughterboards externally.

The following are installed, at present:

Yamaha DB50XG
Creative Wave Blaster (EMU8801)
MediaVision Pro Wave (Korg chipset)
Ensoniq Soundscape DB

All of the audio goes through the slide-out Midiman MicroMixer 18 in the upper-right rack-space, which then ties into a larger mixer, thereby gaining access to an effects-loop as well (particularly welcome for the Soundscape DB...).