Sierra & Roland D-110 Synthesizer MP3 Demonstration

[Cloudschatze]

By the way, I'm not sure how pertinent this is, but:

It's very pertinent, unfortunately. With the blasted part-to-MIDI channels changing with every song, D-10 playback is a ridiculous endeavour.


That's it, everybody go home. Turn the lights out as you leave.

This thread is officially over...

Until I have a D-110 to test with.


Haha, I'm a big lame-o. The part MIDI channels I had listed as "11" (hex 10, decimal 16) are actually being turned Off. I didn't convert from hex initially.

[Alistair]

Well, that would make sense too, those are Adlib channels

Sorry to burst your bubble, Eric man.

By the way- I'm curious- what's playing the drums in that Chi Chi Bar Theme #3 track? It sounds better than the MT-32 drums!

- Alistair

[NewRisingSUn]

With the blasted part-to-MIDI channels changing with every song, D-10 playback is a ridiculous endeavour.

Isn't there any way to change the D-10's channel assignment using MIDI messages? Maybe the sysex message just needs to be modified, or you need to "unprotect" that somehow.

Otherwise, I can update my award-winning SCI0 MTBLAST.DRV for the D-(1)10; that one filters out unused MIDI channels itself, instead of sending all the data and disabling unused channels in the output device. Looking at the patch map, the driver should be almost exactly the same; the only difference is that display messages are longer. Email me if you're interested.

[Cloudschatze]

By the way- I'm curious- what's playing the drums in that Chi Chi Bar Theme #3 track? It sounds better than the MT-32 drums!

A few of the D-10/110 drum sounds use more partials than the MT-32 equivalents, which might account for the difference. I'll have to do a better comparison later to find out.

With the blasted part-to-MIDI channels changing with every song, D-10 playback is a ridiculous endeavour.

Isn't there any way to change the D-10's channel assignment using MIDI messages? Maybe the sysex message just needs to be modified, or you need to "unprotect" that somehow.

I don't think it's possible to change the channel assignment with MIDI. The MIDI implementation lists the 10 00 0DH - 10 00 20H address range as "dummy (for D-110)."

What's worse is that the part MIDI channels can't be set to "off," even from the front panel controls. With the volume turned down, they'll still sit there and use polyphony, unless set to some unused channel...

Otherwise, I can update my award-winning SCI0 MTBLAST.DRV for the D-(1)10; that one filters out unused MIDI channels itself, instead of sending all the data and disabling unused channels in the output device. Looking at the patch map, the driver should be almost exactly the same; the only difference is that display messages are longer. Email me if you're interested.

...Perhaps making this the only real solution.

I can't e-mail you from work, but of course I'd be interested.

Consequently, if it ends up being too much trouble, don't worry about it - I'm set to borrow a friend's D-110 for the week, and hope to pick it up tonight or tomorrow.

[Cloudschatze]

The D-10 recordings in the parent post have been replaced with D-110 recordings.

And they're much better.

Check them out again, for the first time!

[Ari]

I really liked they way the PQ2 theme sounds now that you found those lost patches!
Any chance you could re-record the SQ3 theme?

[Alistair]

Hey Eric,

Neat! Thanks for the effort you've been putting into this.

Just on the LSL3 Nontoonyt Island track, I'm fairly sure the pitch bend problem occurs with the extracted MIDI on my MT-32 also. I'll verify this later tonight.

An observation- I find it interesting that the fantasy pad is fine in PQ2, but not LSL3. Also, those PQ2 synth brasses.. yecch.

But I might have to get a D-110 just for the drums! I thought the MT-32's were king for that kind of synth (LA), but I seriously like the D-110's better. What does everyone else think? 

- Alistair

[Cloudschatze]

I really liked they way the PQ2 theme sounds now that you found those lost patches!
Any chance you could re-record the SQ3 theme?

Finding the patches was Anders' hard work, not mine. All I did was ask.

I actually had re-recorded the SQ3 theme, but forgot to link to it last night.

[NewRisingSUn]

Ok, now that the driver works as designed, I shall pronounce my judgement :

First, the D-110 is just as noisy as the CM-32L, even though it has that DAC trimpot thingy, suggesting that this is not the cause. I still suspect jitter in the deglitcher. Obviously better is the reverb.

Camelot: slightly worse. The attack on the guitar is somehow more muffled, making the synth part more prominent. The gallop sound in the jousting music has a clicking noise.

HQ: It's that SC-55 (or wherever it was first used) timpani sound again. The strings sound even thinner than on the MT-32.

Hoyle: Yes, the drums are better, but that's pretty much it.

PQ2: Sounds boring without the reverb. The guitars and particular the brass are way too shrill.

QfG2: There's those crappy strings again. They sound just like the crappy StrSect1MS in KQ5, so we finally know where those come from.

SQ3: The warm bell has frozen over. The whistle is just as bad as on the SC-55. A good whistle needs a certain amount of vibrato, which the MT-32's "Whistle 2" has, which is why is sounds so good. The brass are disappointing and nothing like the fat synth brass I would expect from a good synth. The choir sounds a little like "glasses".


Bottom line: I hope the D-110 is better than that and it's just Sierra's crappy conversion. I'm wondering that because there are several used D-110s cheap on eBay right now.

[Cloudschatze]

"They were the best of conversions, they were the worst of conversions, they were disappointing all the same." - Me.

That about sums up my feelings. Strange, given that I find novelty in the Casio/IMFC/CMS/Tandy conversions.

I think it comes down to what could have been accomplished, had a D-synth been used for the actual composing.

The brass are disappointing and nothing like the fat synth brass I would expect from a good synth.

The brass comparison is interesting when you consider that Roland was shooting for more realism with the D-synth.

MT-32 (partials)
Syn Brass 1 (2)
Syn Brass 2 (3)
Syn Brass 3 (2)
Syn Brass 4 (2)

D-110/10/20 (partials)
Brass 1 (4)
Brass 2 (3)
Brass 3 (4)
Brass 4 (4)

Bottom line: I hope the D-110 is better than that and it's just Sierra's crappy conversion. I'm wondering that because there are several used D-110s cheap on eBay right now.

Yeah, I wouldn't base an assessment on the Sierra conversions. I'd be interested to hear overflow-assigned playback with the Sierra patches.

In the meantime, I think I'm motivated enough to finish mapping out the second PCM ROM in the LAPC-I/CM-32L/etc.

[Tom]

A good whistle needs a certain amount of vibrato, which the MT-32's "Whistle 2" has, which is why is sounds so good.

 

Ooohh, I was in total agreement until you got to the Whistle.  As for me, some vibrato sounds nice with a whistle, from time to time; not always.  But that's what controllers are for, anyway.  I like to mix different whistles for different feels.  I love both of the MT-32's whistles, and I also like the SC-8820's two whistles.  I think they can effectively work together.  The D110's whistle has its place, too (though I'm not sure where; not in the SQ3 Intro, though.)  But I'm still recovering from hearing that "cold bell" patch.  Eeeeeeeeee

[Alistair]

Just on whistles (when did this become a whistle discussion? ), I think some whistles are good in MT-32 soundtracks, SQ3 (in various places) being the obvious example, but Larry 5's crowd whistles I think sound shoddy, for example. I guess it depends on whether it's a musical instrument whistle or a SFX whistle.

I also think if there had been serious D-110 conversions, they'd easily surpass the MT-32 equivalent. If it's this good when sent the same MIDI data, imagine what it could be like with its' own..

And the drums! I'd love to hear a MT-32 drum track (like the PQ2 one) played back simultaneously on the D-110/SC-8820/50, like I do with many soundtrack CD tracks.

- Alistair

[Cloudschatze]

While doing some of this testing, it dawned on me that "timbreMS" represents a Mark Seibert created/modified timbre, just as "timbreKA" = Ken Allen, and "timbreCB" = Chris Braymen, etc.

I hadn't even thought about it before, and it somehow makes things a little more personal.

[Alistair]

Yep I think there's even a Dan Kehler timbre in Eco Quest 1.

- Alistair

[jbltecnicspro]

http://www.insoc.org/DiscXM.HTML

Here's a link to a soundtrack from one of my favorite Genesis games.  It uses a D-110 among other things, but this should give you some idea as to what it can do.  I believe the sound effects are all done by the sampler, and the D-110 does most of the melodic work.

[Cloudschatze]

http://www.insoc.org/DiscXM.HTML

These aren't bad! Thanks for the link.

[Rhizome]

I'm getting silly.

I just bought a D-110 off eBay for £58, buy it now (£8 is the shipping). Comes with manuals, and is working.

I need to start saving my money now   

Here's the item: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=001&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&viewitem=&item=110147324231&rd=1&rd=1