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Author Topic: World of Xeen: Two out of three Roland products FAILED with this game  (Read 11503 times)
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MikeSol
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« Reply #20 on: September 24, 2011, 05:21:29 PM »

Ok I first tried Xeen with the original executable and the NO INSTRUMENT appears whenever I perform certain actions in game. Firing arrows, some spell sounds, etc.. they don't play. When I tried your executable, the game WORKED PERFECTLY. I tried to trip it up by playing whatever sounds I could in the first area of the game, but your fix worked EVERY TIME. I went back to the original executable, and the game immediately began exhibiting the NO INSTRUMENT problem. I went back to your executable a second time, and it once again WORKED PERFECTLY. Thank you!

Now as for Lands of Lore, I first tried my mkII with this game. It did show the NO INSTRUMENT error. I tried the game with my SCC-1 which played the sound effects back just fine just to confirm that this is a capital tone fallback issue. My SCC-1 is based off the original SC-55 which does not exhibit this problem. I then tried your executable.......

....it failed. Sorry, it seems to only work with World of Xeen at this point. I don't know of another game to test this on. These are the only two games I have that I ever came across that have this problem with the capital tone fallback.

I'm here if you want to try anything out. Its obvious you know what you are doing. But it looks like at this point, each game will need its own fix.
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Mithloraite
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« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2011, 12:15:07 AM »

I was shocked when I went to check out this forum and I saw a thread I started almost four years ago (!!) at the top of the forum again. ...

I have DosBox, my mkII and World of Xeen ready to go. But could you please give me instructions on how to install it? ...

I *THINK* another game where this capital tone fallback thing was a problem was Lands of Lore CD Edition. ...

That's a pleasure to know this great and, uh, musically ~capricious~ game will finally get its fix after all. Nice to see such topic really.

If you suspect some bug or error with XEEN/WoX under DOSBox please ask and I'll try to answer, think I know this game more or less.

Lands of Lore was surely something. Got it working in its day on AWE64 as MIDI music under Windows 95. But I can not say if it was the CD version. worked pretty stable, no hanging notes or missing "no instrument" sounds. That was just great music  Wink
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Mithloraite
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« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2011, 12:44:39 AM »

My SCC-1 is based off the original SC-55 which does not exhibit this problem. I then tried your executable.......
....it failed.

no surprise it can be stubborn  Sad A great cure for the lack of capital tone fallback I've suddenly found with Roland Virtual Sound Canvas and the Yamaha S-YXG50.

In SC-55 mode they both have the fallback feature, which make (at least XEEN) work right.
VSC as a "SC-55" mode setting, and Yamaha seems to switch automatically.

BTW, Yamaha has all the extra sounds (doors, hooves etc) and also has better music with this game as I hear it.
Roland is good, but Yamaha is ~marvellous~ with it. 


I didn't expect it to be so bulletproof to this fallback tone fallback bug, but it is. And sounds like... Try listening to the drums stereo solo when the Darkside intro starts, if your time permits...  Smiley
listening to it now - Epic is the only name...
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MikeSol
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« Reply #23 on: October 06, 2011, 03:15:24 PM »

Well,  I just use my SCC-1 to get around the fallback problem. I have it daisy chained to my other midi modules.

The ONLY game where capital tone fallback was a problem for me is World of Xeen. And now I have a fix for that. Even though Lands of Lore has this problem, you should be using your SoundBlaster for sound effects anyway with that game. This completely bypasses the problem as the fallback issue only affects sound effects, not the music.
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Mithloraite
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« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2011, 02:46:47 PM »

Well,  I just use my SCC-1 to get around the fallback problem. ...

No question, SCC-1 is the safest card and musically great.
I would be still cautious about the fallback issue with other games, though. So you might really need the SCC-1 and the ISA retro machine for other titles too.
The Japanese at auctions seem to remember this feature when it comes to selling an SC-55 synth. I suspect there is more to this "feature/problem", not just XEEN or Lands of Lore.

Hah, I never knew Lands of Lore was tricky! Smiley AWE64 handled both MIDI and sound effects, no hanging notes like AWE32 used to do (when trying to handle both MIDI and the effects)
But I vaguely remember some effects were actually ~musical tones~.
Not the Sound Blaster digital effects.
And I don't remember any of these disappear.

Probably it was some some particular version of Lands of Lore. or some MIDI options in its sound setup are better programmed than the others?

P.S.
XEEN is surely the worst or something with its sound setup. ^^ They did a sweet "modern" Waveblaster option for the sound setup for the Part V/World of XEEN edition of the game... XEEN IV didn't have it.
The game even displays "initializing waveblaster" message.
But it still requires the Fallback feature! ~__~
That the Waveblaster can not provide.
WaveBlaster II by creative surely could not. So I witnessed how it drops the sound effects  Angry
 
Just like the way you described it with SC-55 mark II.

Résumé: it sucks dead gophers.
Pardon my French.. I can not be so stoic as some seasoned members here ^^
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TURRICAN
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« Reply #25 on: October 08, 2011, 07:00:39 PM »

Ok I first tried Xeen with the original executable and the NO INSTRUMENT appears whenever I perform certain actions in game. Firing arrows, some spell sounds, etc.. they don't play. When I tried your executable, the game WORKED PERFECTLY. I tried to trip it up by playing whatever sounds I could in the first area of the game, but your fix worked EVERY TIME. I went back to the original executable, and the game immediately began exhibiting the NO INSTRUMENT problem. I went back to your executable a second time, and it once again WORKED PERFECTLY. Thank you!

Now as for Lands of Lore, I first tried my mkII with this game. It did show the NO INSTRUMENT error. I tried the game with my SCC-1 which played the sound effects back just fine just to confirm that this is a capital tone fallback issue. My SCC-1 is based off the original SC-55 which does not exhibit this problem. I then tried your executable.......

....it failed. Sorry, it seems to only work with World of Xeen at this point. I don't know of another game to test this on. These are the only two games I have that I ever came across that have this problem with the capital tone fallback.

I'm here if you want to try anything out. Its obvious you know what you are doing. But it looks like at this point, each game will need its own fix.


Well, if you still get a "no instrument" error message with any game, when using my fix, this means that the game is sending a "Bank Select" message, to select an instrument variation which doesn't even exist on the Roland Sound Canvas MIDI synth you are using.

To fix such problem/mistake, unlike my current fix for the "Might and Magic : World of Xeen" game, which is rather a generic fix in fact, here I would rather need to code a specific solution : it would require scanning absolutely all of the MIDI messages being sent by the game, and when a "Bank Select" message is about to be forwarded by DOSBox, to the MIDI device/synth, it would check if the "Bank Select" message's value is the invalid one causing the trouble, in which case it would either not forward it to the MIDI device/synth or alter the invalid value to the "0" value (to select the capital instrument).

Fortunately, as for the "Lands of Lore : The Throne of Chaos" game (both the floppy disk and CD-ROM versions), you can easily fix the problem without requiring any modification/patch at all.

When you pick up an item or click on the money amount icon, the MIDI synth is supposed to play a sound note using the Harp instrument (instrument number 47), on the channel 14, but for some reason, before sending the "Program Change" (instrument change) message, it's also always sending a "Bank Select" message with a value of "7".

As you can see in the SC-55 manual (page 68) and in the SC-55mkII manual (page 85), no instrument variation exist at all, for the Harp instrument (instrument number 47) : then it doesn't make any sense at all, that the game is sending a "Bank Select" message for this instrument.

Now, to fix this problem, you first need to go completely ingame, because the game sends a "GS Reset" SysEx message at the title screen (after the character selection screen), then all you have to do is using the buttons on the panel of your Roland Sound Canvas MIDI synth, to manually set the "Rx Bank Sel" option to "off", for the channel 14 only (it's still needed for the various sound effects played on the other channels).

Once done, there won't be any "no instrument" error message anymore, and the intended Harp instrument will be selected and used, when you pick up an item or click on the money amount icon.

Btw, like my fix for the "Might and Magic : World of Xeen" game, this workaround for the "Lands of Lore : The Throne of Chaos" game is also needed when using either a SC-55mkII, SC-88(Pro), SC-8850 or Virtual Sound Canvas, but if someone really wants to use Virtual Sound Canvas with the "Lands of Lore : The Throne of Chaos" game, despite the music/sound quality of Virtual Sound Canvas is not accurate and not as good as a real Roland Sound Canvas, then since the same checkbox is used to enable/disable receiving both the "Program Change" and the "Bank Select" messages, instead, you have to manually select the Harp instrument (instrument number 47) for the channel 14, using the Virtual Sound Canvas panel.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2011, 07:15:43 PM by TURRICAN » Logged
MikeSol
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« Reply #26 on: October 11, 2011, 01:01:43 AM »

Now, to fix this problem, you first need to go completely ingame, because the game sends a "GS Reset" SysEx message at the title screen (after the character selection screen), then all you have to do is using the buttons on the panel of your Roland Sound Canvas MIDI synth, to manually set the "Rx Bank Sel" option to "off", for the channel 14 only (it's still needed for the various sound effects played on the other channels).

Once done, there won't be any "no instrument" error message anymore, and the intended Harp instrument will be selected and used, when you pick up an item or click on the money amount icon.

Ok I tried it and you are right. The harp sound works as long as you perform the above step. But there are other sound effects that don't play back correctly. Choosing Sound Blaster instead of your Sound Canvas in the installer is still the best option. I really wouldn't want to play with the buttons on my SC-55 every time I started the game anyway.
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robbo007
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« Reply #27 on: January 31, 2012, 11:32:29 AM »

Could this patch be supplied to the Dosbox team so they can incorporate it in all builds? I run Dosbox for MAC and would love to see this work for my version of Dosbox.

Thanks,
Rob
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Roland MT 32, Roland SC-55 MKII
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