A bit more of talentless work ;)

[shad0wfax]

In an old topic, NewRisingSun stated that making versions of some else's music using more modern gear (in order to improve the sound) was a talentless work. I'm very proud to announce that I've made a couple of talentless versions of rather old midi files using a Roland RD-700GX and a Yamaha Motif ES Rack 

Talentless or not, the fact is that trying to make a good adaptation takes lots of time and effort. It's not only a matter of selecting patches and midi outputs and that's all; it's rather a matter of re-adjusting each track and parameters individually, mostly by hand, in order to make the result pleasant and consistent. As you know, I've made quite a lot of Sierra soundtrack versions using my Fantom XR; you might like them or not, but it's a quite hard work. By the way, as I always clearly pointed out, when making a version I'm not trying to say "the original is crap; let's fix it", but instead "this is a great music piece and deserves the time and effort it's necessary to invest in making a version". It's like saying: "this is great! Let's see how it sounds with better/more realistic instruments".

In this occasion, I've selected a couple of midi files released by Yamaha as an example of the capabilities of their XG synths. One of them is called "Chillout", and was released with an old version of Yamaha's softsynth (not in version 4, though), while the other is a jazzy midi clip with accompained the DB50XG. I like both of them (the originals) a lot.

You can find the mp3 files here http://www.youshare.com/shadowfax/a17727/DisplaySimple, along with the original XG midi files.

PS: I'm also capable of making original music  . If you like, you can listen to some of my music pieces here: http://www.youshare.com/shadowfax/a17492/DisplaySimple

[the_doctor]

As you know, I've made quite a lot of Sierra soundtrack versions using my Fantom XR

yup, i have your versions of LSL3 and your tracks from SQ4 -- think they're great!

[Mitch]

Those sound great!

Are you planning on doing more?

[MusicallyInspired]

As you know, I've made quite a lot of Sierra soundtrack versions using my Fantom XR

yup, i have your versions of LSL3 and your tracks from SQ4 -- think they're great!

Wait, what? SQ4 was done on the Fantom XR?

[the_doctor]

(assuming it was shadowfax's work - he's the only one I remember posting XR recordings), yes I have an Intro track and the Magmetheus Canteen labeled with XR in my iTunes library.  it's not the whole set, just the two tracks.

[shad0wfax]

Wait, what? SQ4 was done on the Fantom XR?

Nope, I haven't ever made the whole conversion of SQ4 soundtrack. Maybe he referred to QFG4.

[NewRisingSUn]

In an old topic, NewRisingSun stated that making versions of some else's music using more modern gear (in order to improve the sound) was a talentless work.

I never stated that "making versions of some else's music using more modern gear (in order to improve the sound) was a talentless work". I expressed the opinion that it was a sign of disrespect, because it's not a fan's place to improve on an original composer's work. In addition, I provided a sample of a particular bad example of "enhancement", calling that particular person a "talentless hack", to the agreement of almost everyone in this forum. I also acknowledged that there are good enhancements.

If there's one sure way of getting on my bad side, it's misrepresenting what I wrote and putting things into my mouth, deliberately or out of laziness to check the original statement.

Now, carry on.

[MusicallyInspired]

I'm sure his statement was in jest, NRS.

[Dianne Lewandowski]

Actually, lots of people redo a lot of compositions.  Many, many versions of songs - even Bach done in jazz.

There's hacks and there's gifted and there's many falling in between.  I don't think what I produce is "talented" for I do not fall into the category of a Gershwin, Manilo, or Fats Waller.  Though I've played a lot of Rachmaninoff and have been praised for my interpretations (not rewrites).

I think we all know a good rendition when we hear one. 

[shad0wfax]

I never stated that "making versions of some else's music using more modern gear (in order to improve the sound) was a talentless work". I expressed the opinion that it was a sign of disrespect, because it's not a fan's place to improve on an original composer's work.

Sure, your exact words were the following:

People who know me will tell you that when it comes to game music, there's nothing I hate more than talentless hacks thinking they need to "enhance" other people's music by stuffing it into their little sampling synthesizers with their cheesy "high-quality sound fonts".

As I understand, what you mean is that using modern equipment to "enhance" other people's music is a "talentless hack". If it's not so, it's probably because English is not my native language and perhaps I'm not able to get the exact meaning out of the words.

In any case, it was not my aim to put you on the bad side or to misrepresent your point of view, because I respect other people's opinions, even when I diagree. In fact, I disagree in that making versions of other people's music is a lack of respect; I think instead that many times it's just the opposite, it's more like a tribute, or, at least, it's always so in my case. On the other hand, as MI pointed out, it was in jest (I'm not especially interested in considering my own work as rubbish): that is, you consider that (at least some) "enhancements" are talentless hacks; well, I present here some talentless stuff  .

Although I usually don't make things only thinking in what others might think about them, it's also true that don't try to get anyone pissed off, so I apologize if you feel you've been "attacked".

Take it easy,
David

[haradan]

Actually, lots of people redo a lot of compositions.  Many, many versions of songs - even Bach done in jazz.

I think we all know a good rendition when we hear one. 

Well, there are people who really hate Jacques Loussier or Modern Jazz Quartet for "messing" with Bach. By the way, I love them both and consider their renditions and re-works absolutely genius stuff.

And David, siempre habrá gente que no le guste este tipo de cosas, porque el arte siempre depende de la apreciación subjetiva de los individuos, pero habrá mucha otra que disfrute de tu trabajo. A mi me encantan tus versiones de LSL3, por ejemplo...

[Tom]

People who know me will tell you that when it comes to game music, there's nothing I hate more than talentless hacks thinking they need to "enhance" other people's music by stuffing it into their little sampling synthesizers with their cheesy "high-quality sound fonts".

As I understand, what you mean is that using modern equipment to "enhance" other people's music is a "talentless hack". If it's not so, it's probably because English is not my native language and perhaps I'm not able to get the exact meaning out of the words.

That's basically what I got out of it, too.  But in any event, I would find it an honor if someone thinks enough of my music to want to use it ... whether to enhance or rearrange.  I certainly wouldn't take it as an insult, no matter the results, or whether or not I liked the results.

[Ari]

Well, The way I read it, it seems he really doesn't like it when people just playback a piece of music on modern hardware and call it an enhancement. That, essentially, is a pretty talentless piece of work.

Although I can understand how one could misinterpret that sentence as a general dislike of enhancements.

[Alistair]

I think we all probably agree on the point that simply reusing a piece and playing it on your devices with no tweaking is talentless and probably doesn't sound very good, but that also if effort is put in, the results can be a real plus.

I find this especially true in SC-55 scores, when dealing with Sierra soundtracks- the SC-55 is such a plain sounding device with a lot of bad patches- when you add some MT-32 and 8820/50, or even XG, it can really sound special- while not throwing away all the SC-55 "GM" sounds that people think of when they hear a piece from a SC-55 game. I think I achieved that with Eco Quest II and my Freddy score does it even better (at least I think so).

But anyway, for me, it's never about keeping a piece and playing it back different, it's about using better instruments and instrumentation, being clever and getting a nicer, richer, more orchestral sound from a plain, often not-panned, General MIDI or MT-32 piece. And I'll be honest- Tom and I haven't got a bunch of bad sounding CD's!!

Finally- I think the people who do just the 'played back different' deals are lazy and talentless, like the thread mentioned earlier. But I spend (and I know Tom does also) a ton of time on tracks, they don't happen in a day. I personally spend hours on some tracks, to get the panning, instrument selection, etc, just right. And I'll take feedback from my forumgoers in 'beta testing' if there's something people think should be changed.

Essentially- you don't have to like my work on CD's, but a lot of effort goes into it. BUt I'm glad there's still so much of us that love the old scores- since I have a day off, I think I'm going to go record a CD, for the first time in the States.

Regards,
- Alistair

[ebondefender]

My craziest/talentless thing I did was hook up my Roland MT-32 to my Line 6 guitar amp, set the overdrive to max, turn the distortion up to "Insane" and listen to Leisure Suit Larry shred himself to death, ala 1984 Van Halen style. LOL

 

[Ari]

You don't by chance have a recording of this, do you? 

[porjay]

Hey shadowfox and MusicallyInspired(brandon),

Shadowfox: What you do is fantastic! I can't believe someone is taking a view that you are disrespecting the artist? Like WTF... I totally get the angle you have on the subject and think its great. It's a godsend someone has the equipment and is willing to put their time and effort to do what you do. Keep it up dude, can't wait for future releases.

MusicallyInspired: Looked at your website and saw you did a take on grabbag. I have to saw WOW! The song was a pleasure to listen to, hope you decide to do more tracks or different games such as doom.

[NewRisingSUn]

Here's a talentless abomination for y'all:

Original

"Enhancement"

Poster Jaesun states that "Ultima VII has been in need of a musical 'face lift' so to speak, for a long time." If the expressed desire for the botoxification of classic game soundtracks isn't a sign of disrespect, I don't know what is.

[Alison]

Excellent work, Shadowfax!

[shad0wfax]

Here's a talentless abomination for y'all:

Original

"Enhancement"

Poster Jaesun states that "Ultima VII has been in need of a musical 'face lift' so to speak, for a long time." If the expressed desire for the botoxification of classic game soundtracks isn't a sign of disrespect, I don't know what is.

It seems clear that since it's said that some soundtrack needs or is in need of some kind of "face lift", "fixation", etc., it's like saying it's not good (or good enough to be acceptable), and in that sense it is a lack of respect.

In my particular case, I've always worked on the basis that the original arrangements were very good (I've have NO interest at all in investing time and effort in trying to "fix" what I regard as bad music), and my intention has been only to try to get those oringinal arrangements played through better/more realistic instruments. In other words: since the original music is great, there's no need to change the arrangments or the instrument mapping (for instance, changing a bell sound for a chorus, or a string ensemble for a flute), because I only try to improve the sound, not the music. Whether I suceeded or not is of course open to debate and criticism. That also applies to my own arrangements: I've sometimes made versions of music I wrote in the 80's using FM synthesis with better, more modern equipment. If , for example, I use a flute patch in a track, I would see no reason for not using a better flute patch when possible. Unless I consider some piece as "just perfect" or "impossible to improve", my creations are always open to re-work.

Regarding the example of "enhancement" you've pointed out here (Ultima 7), I don't like it for a variety of reasons: it makes radical changes in the instrumentation, the "enhanced" sounds are poor, and the audio recording is heavily compressed. But this doesn't mean that it couldn't be good ehancements of the Ultima 7 soundtrack (respecting the original arrangement).