Recommendations for Classis PC Gaming Setup Please

[Shadow Lord]

Hello All,

Long time lurker, first time poster.

I finally have some time on my hands and decided to dust off the old systems and setup a "Classic Gaming Station". I plan to play mostly sierra games (KQ, SQ, and PQ) some Wing Commander and Ultima and whatever old games I have lying around.... Plus I wouldn't mind messing around with some old DOS programs and maybe even put up a WWIV BBS!

Here is what I have to work with:

Video:
Hercules Rush (3dfx Voodoo Rush Chipset) PCI
STB Voodoo3 2000 (AGP)
Philips Brilliance 19" CRT w/ USB OSD control

Audio:
SB AWE32 ISA PnP
Roland LAPC-I (recently acquired)
Various other SB cards (Vibra 16 I believe, Audigy, etc...)
Speakers: Creative FPS2000

HDD:
1GB IDE
10GB IDE

Floppy:
3.5" and 5 1/4"

Input:
AT Keyboard, PS/2 Keyboard
Logitech C-Series Mouse (serial), Microsoft PS/2
MS SideWinder 3D Pro
MS Sidewinder Game Pad

MB/CPU:
A. Pentium 90 OCed to 120
B. Pentium 200MMX
C. Celeron 300A OCed but probably would run at stock.

As you can see I have HW for one KICK ASS system or maybe two OK systems.

So first set of questions:

1. Should I build one dual booting Win98SE/DOS box or a DOS box and a Win98SE box? The benefit to two boxes is obviously keeping DOS pure and not having to worry about LFNs. I guess this could be somewhat accomplished by partitioning one HDD to a DOS and a Windows Partition.

2. Which MB/CPU combo should I go with:
   A. Closest to an old school PC. Multiple ISA slots. Slow enough for OLD games. No AGP so I have to use the RUSH card. No USB so limits my KB/mouse choices and can not use my monitor's USB controls.

   B. Still a good speed. A bit faster so allows for newer games (WC IV, V, later Ultimas, KQ 8 etc...). No AGP but does have USB.

   C. Definitely too fast for older games but has AGP and native USB.

The MB will determine video. Audio will be in the DOS or DOS/Win98SE box via AWE32 and LAPC-I which would force me to use Audigy or some other SB card in a pure Win98Se machine. I am thinking I will use the 1GB HDD as it should be more then adequate for the games of them day.

Any other pitfalls I need to look for/at? Any recs form the more seasoned veterans? TIA!

[Amigaz]

Regarding Ultima 7 or older and Wing Commander 2 and older you're setup will be too fast, a 386DX 33mhz or 25mhz with cache is ideal for WC...Ultima isn't that picky but will run ok with a 486DX 66 or slower

[jharris01]

1. Should I build one dual booting Win98SE/DOS box or a DOS box and a Win98SE box? The benefit to two boxes is obviously keeping DOS pure and not having to worry about LFNs. I guess this could be somewhat accomplished by partitioning one HDD to a DOS and a Windows Partition.

I don't remember anymore, but unless the DOS flavor of Windows 98 causes problems with some of the old games you wish to play then I don't see why not. You know how finicky Origin games tend to be. The main advantage to me is the ability to network the old computer to my home network so I can move files around. Additionally you can put all sorts of file utilities like WinImage and Winzip and handle all your file management needs from a friendly GUI. However if you are going to play such old games I think it would be better to go even older and install Windows for Workgroups 3.11.

With WFW you will be able to network your computer on an even slower CPU and still keep your options open. I've done it myself and it's very useful. There is also the option of using bootdisks. It all depends how far retro you want to go. In any case good luck.

[Cloudschatze]

Regarding Ultima 7 or older and Wing Commander 2 and older you're setup will be too fast...

Possibly not. A number of Pentium-era motherboards will drop the CPU down to ~25MHz, "386 speed," through either a BIOS setting or keystroke combination.

[Shadow Lord]

Thanks for the recommendations guys. I should clarify the WC and sierra games hsould not be as big of an issue since I have the newer versions (i.e. the anthology, collection, re-releases designed for Win9x e.g. Roberta Williams Antology, WC 1-3). Ultima maybe a whole other issue... I unfortunately don't hae access to anything older HW wise. I sold my 486-33 years ago...

Plus some of the newer games have hefty req: e.g. WC Prophecy, KQ 8, etc... I am hoping to run a balance between old and new if I can.

As for dual booting: I currently have Win9x/DOS DB and the networking is great. The DOS for Win9x supoports LFN but makes it hard to work with it. Plus certain older utilities may have more of an issue... I have both Win and DOS networking setup and I use boot menus as opposed to boot disks  (ahh... that brings back old memories...)

Any recommendations for video card? The 3dfx card is nice since it gives me Glide but should I look for anything else? I may also ditch the monitor as it is having some issues... Looking to purchase a viewsonic PT810 (used but cheap...)

[jharris01]

If it is for 2D games I would recommend a card capable of SVGA, preferrably one with 2 to 4MB of RAM and with a common video chipset (S3, trident, cirrus logic).

[Shadow Lord]

Would the millennium II be a bad choice? I remember this as been a high end card back in the day.... If not how about a paradise (remember those?), or ATI card? I have to see if I can dig up my old SciTech (correct company?) display drivers. I used to use them w/ an old trident 8900...

[Amigaz]

Regarding Ultima 7 or older and Wing Commander 2 and older you're setup will be too fast...

Possibly not. A number of Pentium-era motherboards will drop the CPU down to ~25MHz, "386 speed," through either a BIOS setting or keystroke combination.

Yep, didn't some OEM machines like Dell have that feature?

[Shadow Lord]

Yes, some did but I am sure my Tyan board on the P200 MMX and Abit BH6 w/ the Celeron 300A DO NOT. Not so sure about the P90 as I got that from a friend who was throwing it in the trash. I think it is an MSI board. But as I said speed hasn't been an issue in my version of the games so far.

[Shadow Lord]

Well,

My OCD/addiction to vintage gaming is in full swing! I decided on two computer builds instead of an all in one single system. One system would be for late 80s to early 90s (Classic) and one for mid 90s to late 90s (Nostalgia). Anything after that can run on my main desktop. I unfortunately do not have all the HW I need so I am going to build the late 80s early 90s version first.

Classic:
MSI Mother Board w/ P90
DOS 7.00 and Win95 OSR2
Video: to be acquired
Audio: SB AWE32 w/ SCB-55 and LAPC-I

Nostalgia:
Abit BH6 w/ Celeron 300
WinXP
3Dfx Voodoo5 5500 AGP
Audio: SB AWE32, SCC-1A and Roland MT-32, Monster Sound 3D (original Aureal 3D companion card)

The biggest issue will be getting my hand on some of the HW: Mainly SCD-15 and SCC-1A.

Now I am in need of some guidance, and expansion on previous advice, from the Guru’s here:

On the Classic System:
1.   Any recs on DOS/OS? I.e. Better to do FreeDOS or DR/DOS and Win98SE? I want to run some of my old DOS utils like NC, QEMM, etc. so I am guessing MS-DOS is the best choice! But I want ease of use (i.e. good LFN access, large volumes, etc.)
2.   Video Card: I remember the TSENG ET6000 being a very good performer. Would you guys go with a TSENG board or a 3dfx Banshee or 3dfx Voodoo3 2000 PCI? The benefit of the 3dfx is of course having DOS glide, the downside being no 15bpp mode (yes I know there are TSRs as work around). I could always add a Voodoo1 (That should be time period appropriate, correct?)  to the TSENG for Glide but that adds more expense not to mention it makes it harder to find resources for all the cards! But if I am getting a new video card what would be the rec?
3.   How much memory: in the good old 486 days 32MB was crazy and 64MB was unheard of. Should I stick to these numbers for the P90 Classic or should I go with more?
4.   What size HDD? I have a 1GB IDE currently in the system. I know some programs have problems w/ big disk sizes (e.g. > 32MB) so should I go smaller?

On the Nostalgia:

1.   How good is WinXP at running older games made for DirectX 7 and 8? Should I use an older OS?
2.   How well are 3dfx cards supported in WinXP? If I recall correctly the company went under around the Win2k time? Should I just stick with nVidia and loose glide? Of course there is always the option for a Voodoo2 board.
3.   I want a SCC-1A as the primary MIDI card since by the late 90s GM/GS was the STD as opposed to LA. However, I was wondering for game playing is there any difference between the SCC-1 and the SCC-1A? I.E. Does the music sound different or not?

Thanks for all the help guys.

[BlueMax]

The Voodoo5 - man that was a great card!  Many glide games were limited to 640x480 so the 4x antialiasing made a huge difference in quality!

Good choices on your rigs!

[jharris01]

If you plan to play from DOOM onward your "classic system" is okay. Otherwise it is too advanced in my opinion. It's definitely way too fast for late 80s DOS games. Those ran fine on 8088 4-8Mhz 640K RAM systems. For early 90s a 386 or 486 computer running around 16-66MHz with Windows 3.11 (maybe 8-16 MB RAM) was more common.

Visit Mobygames.com and replacementdocs.com and check out the technical specs for the games you wish to play.

[endre1952]

Yeah, I use a 386SX-40. Those were the true golden days!

[Shadow Lord]

I know. I get a hankering for a 486-33 every once in a while w/ 80 MB HDD and 4mb of RAM! Those were the days when your HW actually lasted. My 486 was good for at least 10 years! Looking at the boxes and system specs I have a variety of stuff: the lowest req. is a 486 SX/25 (SQ anthology, Roberta Williams Anthology) with the highest being a Pentium 200 MMX+ (WC Prophecy) and then everything in between: 486 DX4/75, Pentium 90, Pentium 166, etc... And I know I have played the SQ games on my P200 w/out any issues under win95 (speed wise that is). Now some older games will definetly have problem (e.g. I hate to see how Ultima 1 will run).
 
How about the other HW? e.g. Video card? If lets say I go w/ a 486 (which would require me to buy a 486) then the 3dfx is out, so should I got a w/ a TSENG 6000 or 4000 for video? Windows will be out too so that leaves DOS 6.22... Any recs on those?  Were there any 486 computers w/ PCI slots or was it all ISA/EISA and VLB?

Thanks for the help!

[BlueMax]

Oy...  I forgot about that.  I was meaning to fire up Wing Commander Privateer2 which is totally unplayable on anything over a Pentium 133-ish.

I should've kept my 486DX2-66 imac-style all-in-one machine but I couldn't carry much around after my wife booted me out on my own.

[ebondefender]

Here's mine:

Win98, 1st Edition
Dos 7.1
DirectX 8.0
PCI NVidia GeForce 2, 32MB
a lot of empty ISA slots
64MB EDO RAM
Pentium 1
Sound Blaster AWE32 for General MIDI and sound, CT3900 (the non-jumpered one) with 16MB RAM for the 'Blaster
Roland MT-32
Roland SC-55 for GS/other MIDI if I don't like the way the AWE32 sounds
Joystick port for the above, tethered to the sound card
2.1 desktop Speakers I bought at K-Mart in 2003
IBM PS/2 uber-heavy keyboard with durable metal parts that clack like a train; this may be also used as a bludgeoning weapon for +5 Dex. in Ultima
20" CRT monitor
Pretzels - I was hungry

[apeman]

How about the other HW? e.g. Video card? If lets say I go w/ a 486 (which would require me to buy a 486) then the 3dfx is out, so should I got a w/ a TSENG 6000 or 4000 for video?

If you can find a Tseng card.... sure, but I doubt you will notice much increase over an S3 Trio or even a CL GD-5428 - diminishing returns. I remember looking hard to find a Tseng back in the day, and when I had finally got my hands on one (for a fair amount of money) it was a bit of an anti-climax.

[Shadow Lord]

Well, I don't have either video card (or any ISA video at the moment) so if I am going to spend the money I figure I should get the one that is "best".

Of course I am having a hard time finding a TSENG card taht I want. Alot of 4000AXs out there but not the other ones...