Vibrato

[endre1952]

Could I hear a demonstration of the faster vibrato issue of third generation LA modules? Honestly, they are good enough for me while gaming, but I still believe guys with more knowledge and a better musical ear. I know there have been demonstrations here already, but the links seem to be dead now.

[Cloudschatze]

CM-64

CM-500

[endre1952]

Thanks! Yes, I do hear the difference. Had never noticed it while listening to game music, though.

[jpxdude]

It is subtle in some games to me, and I kinda like it!

Here it is in Monkey Island 2 Introduction video on someones MT-32 and my CM-32LN.  It is noticeable when the Pan Flute instrument kicks in just after the main introduction melody (When it says "Deep in the Carribean Scabb Island):

MT-32 at 2'10 seconds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fvO__ywTZg

CM32LN at 3'23 seconds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4jcnCH_tb4

[endre1952]

I'm now actually starting to notice the faster vibrato. Needless to say, a CM-32LN is still a LOT better than the publicly available versions of Munt!

[Mau1wurf1977]

It is subtle in some games to me, and I kinda like it!

Here it is in Monkey Island 2 Introduction video on someones MT-32 and my CM-32LN.  It is noticeable when the Pan Flute instrument kicks in just after the main introduction melody (When it says "Deep in the Carribean Scabb Island):

Thank you very much for this recording...

I always wondered what the difference would sound like. I believe it's something you won't pick up unless you know about it and know what to look for...

EDIT: I still have a question though...

I read the wikipedia article regarding DAC non-linearity and that Roland only  factory-trimmed the final models.

So are these two related, meaning the factory trimming is causing the difference in vibrato?

And wouldn't it be correct to say that the first units where therefore "flawed"?

[endre1952]

I think it's safe to say that most games were composed on the earlier units. That must be one reason why people prefer them.

[Mau1wurf1977]

I think it's safe to say that most games were composed on the earlier units. That must be one reason why people prefer them.

Quite possible!

Monkey Island 2 was released winter of 1991. And according to wikipedia, the CM-500 was launched in 1992 so it was impossible that they used a "third generation unit" to compose the theme... And pretty much from 1992 onwards games switched to General Midi / Sound Canvas anyway. So yes your statement makes a lot of sense!

Why is the CM-500 so high in demand if (almost?) none of the game music was composed on it?

A bit OT but the wikipedia article states that Monkey Island 2 uses some of the "33 additional sound effects" on later units. Does anyone know an example in this game? Preferably somewhere in the beginning of the game?

[jpxdude]

The 33 extra sounds were originally included in the LAPC-I which was out at the time.

I've only noticed a handful of MIDI sound effects in Monkey Island 2 though I'm not sure they are present on a regular MT-32.

They include the Spit noises, doors opening/closing, Slamming gate on Phatt island, Keys from Walt the dog, metronome in scabb island bar, thunder at graveyard, hammer noises, and bats.

[endre1952]

The CM-500 is popular because it works with any game supporting midi. You don't need two seperate module on the table, both a CM-32LN and an SC-55 (or CM-300) are included in one box.

[Mau1wurf1977]

They include the Spit noises, doors opening/closing, Slamming gate on Phatt island, Keys from Walt the dog, metronome in scabb island bar, thunder at graveyard, hammer noises, and bats.

I see! Nice...

I wonder what you hear on a regular MT-32... Well I will find out soon, planning on getting a few synthesizer soon....

The CM-500 is popular because it works with any game supporting midi. You don't need two seperate module on the table, both a CM-32LN and an SC-55 (or CM-300) are included in one box.

Yea that makes sense! Still I am glad I found out about all these little differences between the various synthesizer! Very exciting stuff.

Personally I see myself prefering having multiple units and I definitely like the displays that the MT-32 and SC-55 come with...

[Cloudschatze]

I read the wikipedia article regarding DAC non-linearity and that Roland only  factory-trimmed the final models.

So are these two related, meaning the factory trimming is causing the difference in vibrato?

And wouldn't it be correct to say that the first units where therefore "flawed"?

No, and no.

[NewRisingSUn]

This has prompted me to finally remove all references to trimmed and non-trimmed DACs from the Wikipedia MT-32 article, since it's misunderstood most of the time anyway and of only minor importance.

[Mau1wurf1977]

Oh I see. well thanks guys for clearing that up...

So the faster Vibrato was simply a "design decision" from Roland?

I would also use this opportunity to thank you guys (sorry if I don't know who the specific people are) for that great wikipedia article.

Specifically the game list of "MT-32 compatible games". I can only imagine what effort it took to test all these games and pick up the subtle differences between the midi devices.

EDIT: Thanks Cloudschatze for further clarifying this!

[Cloudschatze]

So the faster Vibrato was simply a "design decision" from Roland?

No, it was unintentional, and incredibly enough, went unnoticed until long after the end-of-support date.

Roland Japan's response to a 2006 inquiry:

"This is a bug of the CM-500 and CM-32LN modules. We are sorry
that we cannot fix the problem because the modules has passed
ten years or more since sales were ended"

[Mau1wurf1977]

They include the Spit noises, doors opening/closing, Slamming gate on Phatt island, Keys from Walt the dog, metronome in scabb island bar, thunder at graveyard, hammer noises, and bats.

Well I tried that game and I can't hear hammer noises or metronome at the bar...

I can hear bats at the graveyard, but not at the voodoo swamps.

There is also no spitting and mug cleaning noise from the bar keeper and no hammer noise...

I get all these effects on a soundblaster, though there is also no metronome sound on that version either...

Update: ScummVM has a mixed Adlib / Roland mode, playing all missing effects through Adlib.

I am confused because Wikipedia states that Monkey Island 2 supports the extra sound effects, yet there are a ton of sound effects missing...

[NewRisingSUn]

Monkey Island 2 uses separate MIDI files for Adlib and Roland. Most of the game's sound effects only have Adlib MIDI files and thus are silent on Roland. Of those MIDI files that exist for Roland (music and sound effects), a few make use of some of the additional 33 sound effect samples of the CM-32L/CM-64/CM-500.

[Mau1wurf1977]

Yea I was quite surprised...

I can recommend ScummVM for Monkey Island 2 as it has a mode that will play music for Roland and Sound effects through emulation.

Fate of Atlantis seems to support this out of the box, at least in the CD version with speech the ice picking sound in iceland comes through the soundblaster card...

Quite interesting because in Monkey Island 2 they did make a bat sound in the Cemetery but not in the swamp. Which is odd as the same sound could have been used...

There doesn't seem to be any uploading of custom patches. The games start right away. Quite a difference to Wing Commander or Space Quest 4 which seem to upload a ton of patches.

Space Quest 4 is brilliant regarding sound effects. A ton of effects that fit perfectly. I guess Sierra just had a lot more experience with using the MT-32 than Lucasarts did...
  

[NewRisingSUn]

Monkey Island 2 and Fate of Atlantis do upload custom instruments, just not at the beginning of the game, but whenever a song that uses them begins.

[Mau1wurf1977]

Oh I see!