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Author Topic: Only Time Will Tell - cover  (Read 2970 times)
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MusicallyInspired
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« on: December 14, 2011, 06:45:14 AM »

I took my humble MT-32 and attempted to remake Mike Oldfield's "Only Time Will Tell" from his album The Songs of Distant Earth. It's certainly not as good as the original, especially with the MT-32's limitations. I was really fighting for polyphony! I had to leave out a couple instruments as a result. If I had a second box it might sound a little better. It doesn't have any of the vocal sections for obvious reasons, but it was fun to try and recreate. This is the first time I've touched my MT-32 in a couple years!

http://brandonblume.com/music/onlytimewilltell_mt32.mid

EDIT: Here's an MP3 version. http://brandonblume.com/music/onlytimewilltell_mt32.mp3

Here's the fantastic original for reference:

Mike Oldfield - Only Time Will Tell - Neferzix HD
« Last Edit: December 14, 2011, 04:59:49 PM by MusicallyInspired » Logged

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Mau1wurf1977
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« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2011, 02:10:23 PM »

Fantastic job!
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jbltecnicspro
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« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2011, 11:19:58 PM »

Wow, nice job!  Can I have a copy of the Sysex file?  I take it this is from Kings Quest 2: RTS?  I LOVE the patches in the game.  Smiley

EDIT:  My comment wasn't praising enough to this MIDI.  Seriously, this is one of the cooler MT-32 midi's I've heard in a long time.  Smiley
« Last Edit: December 16, 2011, 11:21:00 PM by jbltecnicspro » Logged
MusicallyInspired
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« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2011, 04:38:00 PM »

Thank you! I just wish I had more polyphony! Wink Sure I can send over the sysex if Tom doesn't mind (I'm sure he doesn't). Tom sent it to me during development of KQ3Redux to use. I thank him immensely for lending me part of his library. Of course everything in the sysex can be found on QS in the sysex area anyway.
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jbltecnicspro
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« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2011, 10:50:16 PM »

As for polyphony, I've been thinking of composition "tricks" to simulate more polyphony on the MT-32.  The idea is pretty much the same as composer tricks for the limited 8-bit game consoles and computers: arpeggiations, single channel pan echos (hard attack on the left, followed by an "echo" of the sound on the right using the same MIDI channel), and other stuff to make it seem like the unit's cranking out high polyphony when it isn't. 

I think that the MT-32's old enough to treat it as such.  Smiley
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BlueMax
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« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2011, 07:58:27 AM »

Sounds great so far!

As far as cheating - how about using a PAIR of MT-32's as some have done for the KQ4 debate!  Smiley
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MusicallyInspired
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« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2011, 08:30:37 PM »

Like I said, if I had a pair that's what I would have done. Smiley
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jharris01
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« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2012, 01:55:12 PM »

I am no expert but same as you I did hit MT-32's polyphony limitation pretty quickly with some midis I made. It was very challenging! I found myself making hard decisions as to what notes/instruments to leave out, going back to LA-Synth to see if I could lighten up the composition of the patch.

One time someone mentioned here how he "cheated" on a SC-55 by recording each channel to WAV, one by one, and then mixing everything together for the final result. Sounded so obvious in the post and yet it never occurred to me. I kinda like to be able to play it from the unit itself, but the alternative with today's computers is certainly possible.
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jbltecnicspro
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« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2012, 11:17:19 PM »

For the MT-32's polyphony limit, multitrack recording is the easiest way to go.  I do this with my XV-2020, as it only has 64 voices of polyphony (some patches consume up to 8 voices per note).  If you don't want to do that, you could always go the route of treating the MT-32 as one of its less capable cousins of the era.  If Tim Follin can squeeze epic compositions from the Commodore 64 or the NES, then one really has no excuse for the MT-32.  At its worst, the MT-32 can still churn out more than double the simultaneous notes of both systems mentioned above.

Check some of these out for examples of programming tricks:

Tim Follin: Time Trax for Sega Genesis.  The Genesis uses a 6 channel (here, it's in 5 voice mode) Yamaha chip, with a 4 channel (one white noise, three square waves) sound chip.

Tim Follin - Time Trax, Title Music (Mega Drive/Genesis)


Tim Follin: Pictionary for NES.  The NES had three melodic channels, one noise channel, and one (rarely used) digital sample channel.  See what he does with only 5 notes of polyphony?

NES Pictionary Soundtrack


And one more from Tim Follin on the C64, which only had 3 voices of polyphony (4 if you used a bug in the original models):

Tim Follin's C64 Music - part 1/4
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Great Hierophant
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« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2012, 08:00:59 PM »

I really like the song and would complement Brandon on a job well-done.  We need more MT-32 compositions these days.  I made sure to play it back through my MT-32, just to make sure the recording was pure Smiley

Sounds great so far!

As far as cheating - how about using a PAIR of MT-32's as some have done for the KQ4 debate!  Smiley

Cloudschatze and I are unaware of a debate regarding KQ4 and multiple MT-32s, could you expound a bit or link to a discussion?
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MusicallyInspired
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« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2012, 10:07:45 PM »

Thank you, guys. Smiley

If you don't want to do that, you could always go the route of treating the MT-32 as one of its less capable cousins of the era.  If Tim Follin can squeeze epic compositions from the Commodore 64 or the NES, then one really has no excuse for the MT-32.  At its worst, the MT-32 can still churn out more than double the simultaneous notes of both systems mentioned above.

For new compositions, absolutely. I was trying to cover a song instrument for instrument which doesn't exactly allow any room for liberties in that way.
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MusicallyInspired
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« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2012, 04:41:39 AM »

I just made an offer on ebay for a second MT-32 and won. Finally getting two! I also might grab those nifty sideways adapters for the MT-32 so I can fit them on my power bar!
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Marten
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« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2012, 05:09:56 PM »

Congrats!
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OmerMor
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« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2012, 06:46:34 PM »

Do you know if the Munt emulator is capable of producing more polyphony than was possible with a single unit?
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MusicallyInspired
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« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2012, 07:20:05 PM »

Honestly have no idea and never tried.
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andrew603
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« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2012, 08:40:58 PM »

Do you know if the Munt emulator is capable of producing more polyphony than was possible with a single unit?

It currently does not.  It works just like the MT-32.  I was looking at the source once and did not find anything that appeared related to midi channel counts or polyphony counts, I am by no means an expert programmer, more of a web coder/scripter myself, but it looks like it is hard coded to work with the same channel and polyphony limitations as designed in the the control ROM's of the real MT-32 that it uses.

It would be awesome if you could it had no polyphony limit and full 16 channel support or if someone wrote a VST version you could load multiple times.  We should add that to suggestions or something!

On another note, if anyone wants me to record some midi that needs more than one MT-32.. I do have 3.  I'd be happy to.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2012, 08:43:49 PM by andrew603 » Logged

~Andrew~
Roland: 3x MT-32,CM-64,SC-55mkII,88,880,8820,8850,PMA-5,D-110,2x D-550,PG-1000,XV-5080,Fantom XR, Most SRX Cards, Several SR-JV80 Cards, Several SN-U110 Cards
Yamaha: MU128,PSR-530,HS80 Monitors
Other: Korg X5DR,Casio CTK-601, MOTU 24I/O
MusicallyInspired
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« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2012, 04:59:32 AM »

I just got my second MT-32 in the mail! Haven't tried it out yet but will over the weekend. Excited!

Also, a VSTi plugin of MUNT would be amazing. Perhaps with some extra features like being able to load MT-32 patch banks into the plugin itself via M32 or SYX files. That would be great. Or maybe it doesn't even need to do that. Maybe the plugin would function more like an MT-32 librarian software and you can alter the sound settings right there and save the result as patches, much like how other VSTi synths work. Of course you'd still be able to import a SYX or an M32 file or whatever as that would be handy. Maybe you could export as well! A next-gen MT-32 emulator and librarian software synth in the form of a VSTi plugin! Ah to dream.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2012, 05:01:41 AM by MusicallyInspired » Logged

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andrew603
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« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2012, 05:07:40 PM »

OMG yes, I think we need to seriously get some programmers together...  It is an open-source project after all, right?

Also coincidentally I just got a CM-64 in the mail today to add to my collection.
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~Andrew~
Roland: 3x MT-32,CM-64,SC-55mkII,88,880,8820,8850,PMA-5,D-110,2x D-550,PG-1000,XV-5080,Fantom XR, Most SRX Cards, Several SR-JV80 Cards, Several SN-U110 Cards
Yamaha: MU128,PSR-530,HS80 Monitors
Other: Korg X5DR,Casio CTK-601, MOTU 24I/O
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« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2012, 04:00:03 PM »

You know, I chained my MT-32s together and I still have the same problem I had when I chained it with my CM-500. Whenever I put my MT-32 into overflow mode it works for every instrument except the rhythm channel. I'm gaining partials for all my instruments but many many drum notes are dropped and lost. Is this a problem with my MT-32? Is this normal? Seems kind of a flawed concept if it is.
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MusicallyInspired
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« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2012, 01:20:49 AM »

Anyone?
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