MT-32 emulator claims

[Alistair]

Most of us know there's a Roland MT-32 emulator project out there. And most of us are pretty sceptical (myself included). But, if the claims of project leader 'canadacow' are correct, we may be expecting something very decent.

In his own words:

I would say the emulator is about 98% complete. Sounds about dead on... everything's emulated... only a few specific games have problems here and there.

(Referring to the question "So, regardless of what MT-32 game I play, the emulator can handle all the custom instruments?"):

Yeah, pretty much. I designed the emulator around the correct MT-32 sysex interpretation.

(And subsequently from further investigation abotu SysEx handling):

The emulator is not just wavetable translation. It emulates the LA synthesis the MT-32 did. It emulates the patch ram in the same configuration.

Well, this is interesting, to say the least. What do you guys think?

- Alistair

[Danny]

I think the project is a faithful attempt, you only have to listen to different sounds clips over the past year or so that's it has been in works to hear that it is a genuine attempt.  It is not just some soundfont trick, but genuine L/A synth emulation.  I'm pretty sure eventually the need for hardware MT-32s other than as a reference will disappear.  And with fast enough CPUs, the 32 partial limit can be surpassed.

[Bevil]

I've tried the emulator . It DOES understand mt-32 sysx and can playback the custom instruments, but unfortunately the instruments sound way out of balance and is a real CPU hogger.  I guess more work is required, but at least the emulation seems to be headed in the right direction.

[Danny]

I've listened to samples every month or two since the project started, you can hear it's progress. Eventually it should sound perfect.

[Laust]

(Referring to the question "So, regardless of what MT-32 game I play, the emulator can handle all the custom instruments?"):

You should keep in mind that custom patches are no different from the normal or default instruments. They're just not in the ROM. There are no special properties tied ot the custom instruments.

The emulator is not just wavetable translation. It emulates the LA synthesis the MT-32 did. It emulates the patch ram in the same configuration.

This is really the essential point. Handling SysEx and custom patches comes almost automatically due to the way the emulator is designed. It's either everything or nothing.

Well, this is interesting, to say the least. What do you guys think?

I think I'm overall fairly uninterested rather than sceptical  

Why would I need an emulator when I have the real thing? With an emulator, there'll always be the nagging suspicion (to me anyway) that the output isn't 100% accurate. I don't need to question my CM-32L or MT-32.

This is why I don't like emulated sound formats in general - although I see them as a necessity when I don't own the original hardware and in some cases they offer greater flexibility.

[Alistair]

I just find it intriguing that it can accept patches.

And obviously for us MT-32 users it's not a useful thing, but for the general public it would be extremely useful.

I guess more work is required, but at least the emulation seems to be headed in the right direction

Eventually it should sound perfect.

As far as I could gather, not much more work is going to be done on it..

- Alistair

[robertmo]

Why would I need an emulator when I have the real thing?

And obviously for us MT-32 users it's not a useful thing

As I said before emulator is VERY usefull for us:

1. It has no buffer overflows (buffer overflows makes a real MT32 almost nothing more than a remapped GM module).

2. Emulator has no cracks too.

[Tom]

Emulator has no cracks too.

What's that mean, exactly?

Does this emulator handle more polyphony than 32 partials (which is really more like 22 in actual use.)

Does it address all 16 channels?

[robertmo]

Emulator has no cracks too.

What's that mean, exactly?

If your mt32's volume knob is set to max you will have cracks in some games (intro of Wing Commander 1 is the best example - when fireworks explode) (if you reduce volume from 100 to 60 you have no cracks at all).

[Bevil]

2. Emulator has no cracks too.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the emulator at its current stage crackles more than the MT-32;)

[Cloudschatze]

If it doesn't "crackle" like the original, how can it ever be 100% complete?  

I'm with Laust on this one though, and think the real appeal will be directed to those individuals without the actual hardware.

[EDIT}
Figured I'd add a bit more, after listening to the "current" sound examples....
The reverb sounds off. It may not be the reverb, but something is creating a "cycling" effect.

Also, anyone who really loves the Monkey Island theme should give Cusco's Apurimac albums a listen.

[dnewhous]

If your mt32's volume knob is set to max you will have cracks in some games (intro of Wing Commander 1 is the best example - when fireworks explode) (if you reduce volume from 100 to 60 you have no cracks at all).

Damn, Origin took the fireworks out of the win95 port altogether!

[HondaSiR]

I've said it before and I'll voice out my opinion again.  For as long as the actual MT-32 unit and its compatibles remain readily available for purchase at very reasonable prices, the emulator will always play second fiddle for us computer game players and musicians.  Let me elaborate the reasons why...I feel like rambling anyway.

1.  The emulator, no matter how good it is right now, still hogs a lot of  CPU cycles.  It literally begs to be run on a Pentium 4 or faster machine. On the other hand, the real MT-32 will run on a "slow" 386 as well as a screaming fast P4. Talk about versatility!

2.  Even if the emulator exceeded the 32-partial limitation of the original MT-32, as Tom pointed out, would it really matter? The old games that support it would still sound the same. And composers nowadays prefer newer equipment that is not based on the MT-32 format. GM has replaced the MT standard ages ago and there is even the GM2 and XG standard.

3.  The emulator, being in software form, can easily be corrupted by viruses and other reasons.  The real MT can never be corrupted by a virus since it relies on hardware electronics.

4.  Lastly...and this is my favorite...nostalgia.  Since the late 80's, I have always wanted (drooled actually) the MT-32.  I have only seen one unit in a computer store way back then, and since I was accustomed to FM music at the time, hearing the MT-32 for the firt time really made me ask myself "Why am I listening to this FM synthesizer? This is a joke!" So from then on, I promised myself that someday I will get a unit for myself. And I did. It makes me eternally happy just to see the module sitting on my desk and realizing that my dream has finally been realized.  Seeing is really believing! I don't think the emulator can "emulate" that...


-Johnny

[Alkarion]

I feel I have the duty to intervene on behalf of the emulator. Of course it still has severe limitations when compared to the original, but you should really develop a broader perspective here. Imagine what CPU power will be available in 5-10 years. Those processors won't have any problems running the emulator as a background process.

Eventually, some day, the last MT-32/CM-32L/... will finally stop working. You may object that this will take a really long time or that they may be repaired but the point is that the emulator preserves the hardware for times when it won't be available any more. As we are talking about decades here, the platform independent approach gets very important.

Furthermore, having an emulator is a very convenient way of enjoying the MT-32's music. Dosbox already comprises much more hardware than you could possibly plug in to one computer, regardless of the fact that ISA slots aren't available any more. With my notebook, Dosbox enables me to play games with Adlib, Soundblaster, GUS, Tandy, Roland, etc. sound. Even though the MT-32 can still be used with my notebook I need a special USB to Midi adapter which isn't cheap considering its functionality.

I won't say you don't need your Roland module any more, that would be nonsense. Emulation can never be 100 percent perfect. But I look forward to the day where simply starting dosbox gives me a virtual MT-32 which can only be told from the original by experts. And if I want to record something, I still have my CM-64 with enhanced signal-to-noise ratio over the MT-32   .

[Alistair]

I must agree with Alkarion. The most important factor is to have a working copy for ourselves before the machines wear out.

- Alistair

[HondaSiR]

With proper care and maintenance, the MT-32 should probably last for several years, decades, or even a lifetime.  Some people (excluding me) even have a spare unit. But nevertheless, Alkarion did prove a point. The emulator is not bulky, it will compliment a laptop machine perfectly and this is specially helpful for the frequent game player traveller.  Desk space is also conserved since there is no module to deal with.

But until I see the day that the emulator can be perfected, I still think it comes a distant second place over the real thing.  Perhaps in time, my opinion will change but as of now, it still stands.

-Johnny

[Tom]

Well, Roland can't do it with their own Sound Canvas (and Virtual Sound Canvas), so I don't have a lot of hope for this.  It will probably be...okay, but won't really perform like the real thing.  The VSC has a lot of nice sounds, but it also has a lot of sounds that don't cut it; far too synthy.  The instrument I'd like to hear emulated is the MT-32's "Soundtrack" patch.  None of the Sound Canvas models do it justice.  It must be an "L/A" thing.  Such a warm, beautiful and somewhat eerie or haunting sound that gets washed away on the Sound Canvas.

[robertmo]

Well, Roland can't do it with their own Sound Canvas (and Virtual Sound Canvas), so I don't have a lot of hope for this.

If I understand correctly you try to say that even roland doesn't emulate mt-32 correctly with their own Sound Canvas (and Virtual Sound Canvas).

The truth is that roland doesn't even want to emulate mt-32. Cause you cannot emulate mt-32 with a normal wavetable sound card.

You have to emulate all these square and sawtooth waves too. And that is what canadacow's MT32 emulator does

[dnewhous]

If I understand correctly you try to say that even roland doesn't emulate mt-32 correctly with their own Sound Canvas (and Virtual Sound Canvas).

The truth is that roland doesn't even want to emulate mt-32. Cause you cannot emulate mt-32 with a normal wavetable sound card.

You have to emulate all these square and sawtooth waves too. And that is what canadacow's MT32 emulator does

Sorry to butt in, but no, you have 100% MISunderstood what Tom was saying.  Tom was saying the Roland cannot accurately emulate the real sound canvas with their virtual sound canvas, therefore he believes that there is no chance canadacow will successfully emulate the MT-32 with his MT-32 emulator.

[Laust]

Well, Roland can't do it with their own Sound Canvas (and Virtual Sound Canvas), so I don't have a lot of hope for this.  It will probably be...okay, but won't really perform like the real thing.  The VSC has a lot of nice sounds, but it also has a lot of sounds that don't cut it; far too synthy.  The instrument I'd like to hear emulated is the MT-32's "Soundtrack" patch.  None of the Sound Canvas models do it justice.  It must be an "L/A" thing.  Such a warm, beautiful and somewhat eerie or haunting sound that gets washed away on the Sound Canvas.

Maybe Roland only made a half-hearted effort. They haven't been particularly interested in a revival of their old synths, despite them still being popular among users. No MT-32 emulator, no emulators for the popular drum synths (TR-303 or something?), and even the GS emulator was a late arrival.

With all the documents, software, etc. Roland must have available on their own synths, they should be able to do an excellent job on all their models.

Maybe the hardware and software divisions in Roland don't like each other

As for how long the MT-32 family synths will last, I think a propely taken care of Roland unit will last a very long time. Apart from the power regulator, the electronics run surprisingly cool and aren't subjected to thermal stress.

I certainly expect mine to out live me, or my interest in L/A synths, whichever comes first...